Interbane wrote:No, I'm not implying absolutes. Codes can be flexible and account for relative interpretations. Authority can be of the qualitative type, subjective and not absolute.
A Code is a type of legislation that purports to exhaustively cover a complete system of laws or a particular area of law as it existed at the time the code was enacted. In government, authority is often used interchangeably with the term "power". However, their meanings differ: while "power" refers to the ability to achieve certain ends, "authority" refers to a claim of legitimacy, the justification and right to exercise that power.
If your reasoning for the use these two definable terms, borrowed from Wikipedia, as relative were valid when faced with accusation for breach of code by an authority on the subject it would be a logically valid argument for the guilty part to say that at some future time the law will be changed and the authority will no longer hold claim to power and so the individual is innocent. In evolutionary terms this is the equivalent of basing biological research on a time when humans have developed currently non-existent physical features. Not a funding hot spot. We don't suddenly change the requirement for a person to be considered authoritative without good reason, if we did there would be a shifting of roles rather than a complete cessation of function. If the code changes it is replaced but its successor, a new authority or one revised to fulfill the updated function emerges.
Interbane wrote:If the authority is a group of your peers(a very large group), which is the only option concerning morality, they base the codes on subjective grounds and constructed with reason. The inherent flaws of subjectivity aside, it's the only option.
A subjective notion of right and wrong hardly fulfills the requirements for the use of a code by an authority.
Interbane wrote:We've evolved the mechanism by which to follow morale standards(if you don't like the word codes). Society's expectations are those standards. The in-group and out-group comparison is a great example of this disjunction.
But the mechanism is not dependent on evolution it is a result of it. Reread the quotes of Rousseau. The argument from evolution is comparable to an argument from design, it says something but not very much. It seems beyond obvious that we have evolved a plethora of capacities distinctly human, but moral society is not a product of the evolution rather a result of it. Imagine an independent human, born outside of society, it would take a contemporary observer to distinguish current notions of morality and social normality, no such notions or distinction arise of evolutionary origin alone and would have to be taught to the independent entity. A human has the capacity to learn English no doubt evolved over time, that does not mean that because of evolution he does not have to learn. Master and slave morality you refer to perhaps? of course proximity causes one to influence the other so there can never be perfect comparison or disjunction for that matter. The question becomes a social observation concerning the effect of social Spencerism.
Interbane wrote:My opinion is that the metaphysical effects we feel are higher order manifestations of neuronal activity.
But of course I agree.
Interbane wrote: What precisely do you consider metaphysical? Are the thoughts that flow through my head while typing this response metaphysical?
Well...metaphysics is defined as the investigation into what types of things there are in the world and what relations these things bear to one another.
Care for a quick summary? Perhaps a key quote or two?
Interbane wrote:Nature as evolution no longer exists within us? I'm not sure I follow.
Reread Rousseau. Now that you are born evolution is only an amusement. You are as evolved as you will ever be. Morally evolution can offer ideas about relativism and give some perspective to why we are here debating the subject. To say that evolution is what has created or striving is to evade the question of what it is we are now and why we are currently striving. As I mentioned evolution is amusing, little more. The only evolution we experience is of the social kind.
Interbane wrote:Here's an overview of "The Science of Good and Evil" by Michael Shermer. His 'provisional morality' framework is very compelling and I think has more truth to it than other explanations of morality. It mentions how evolution has given us moral impulses and capacity.
But of course. He agrees perfectly with what I have been saying. Provisional is just another way of expressing perspective. Evolutionary moral perspective is much different from the social moral perspective as we know it none-the-less similarities or overlap will inevitably remain.
Interbane wrote:Are you saying we can't use reason to overcome our evolved impulses? What of contraceptives? Our desire for sex is in order to reproduce, but using our brains we've derailed the objective of this impulse. That there are exceptions doesn't make a case against it.
There are limits to reason, there are limits to human comprehension and capabilities, we can never fully overcome our impulses. What of them? Reread Rousseau. Within the terms you have set how can you separate the desire for sex from anything else. The frames of reference are much too interchangeable to hopefully or realistically produce anything productive. Our laughter makes us feel better, using our brains we watch movie that synthesize the objects of our laughter. Now, how is there any difference between my question and yours? There isn't, so the particular are meaningless and the question needs to be reworded to better reflect the true factors. Reread those quotes from Rousseau.
Interbane wrote:Yet both are necessary for a full accounting of morality.
Naturally.