Paradise Lost: Bk VII, VIII, & IX
Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:52 am
Book VII, VIII, & IX Discussion
Please use this thread to discuss Book VII of Paradise Lost
Please use this thread to discuss Book VII of Paradise Lost
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I suppose that God creates the Son just so he can have somebody to save man, whom he knows will fall. He also knows the Son will volunteer to pay the penalty for man's sin, as the Son is in fact shown doing in Bk III after God asks for someone to step forward for the job. God is always running into problems with his omniscience. He knows what will happen and needs no one else to make it happen. But he has to have his huge retinue anyway to pay him homage, and has to give them functions so they won't feel useless. In VI, after the victory, he announces that he'll create the world and man to replace the millions of angels who are now in Hell. These new creatures can someday hope to occupy Heaven itself, he says. He knows this is not to be, so why does he say it? He has an unattractive habit of letting things go on for a while and then saying "Cut" like a movie director. Remember how he leads Adam on, as Adam petitions for a mate? He refuses him a couple of times before breaking in, "Relax, my boy, I was going to give you a woman all along." In God's case, I'm afraid that omniscient equals obnoxious, for me. (It must be tough to know everything that will ever happen, including everything that you yourself will ever do.)Saffron wrote:In bks VII & VIII the angle Raphael tells the story of the creation of the world and Adam tells how God made humans. In the telling of creation the son of God is mentioned several times. It struck me as odd that no mother or consort of God is ever mentioned. No explanation for the son existence is give. The son just is. What is even stranger to me and I assume that Milton himself made this choice, the son is call the Messiah even before he takes on the job of being the savior of the human race.
Here is a stab in the dark, based on a wee bit of knowledge -- not nearly enough, but here I go anyway. This might make sense considering the fact that Milton is a devout Christian . Isn't this the position of the church at the time Milton is writing PL? The church is the keeper of knowledge. Especially on the topic of the true nature of the universe (Ptolemaic vs. Copernican view). It is certainly the view of the Catholic church. I wonder if it is also the view of the Protestant groups as well.DWill wrote:
In book VIII Raphael says that for Adam to inquire about geocentrism vs. heliocentrism and celestial motions is probing into matters only God has the knowledge of. By why draw the line there? It is totally arbitrary.
I agree. The prohibitions against learning too much bother me also. It is also suprising that Milton would take this stance considering that he himself was an intellectual. Catholicism does not explain it because according to the introduction of the book that I am reading, Milton was very anti-Catholic. I am wondering if the problem is experiential knowledge vs. intellectual knowledge. Perhaps that is what the physical action of eating the fruit signifies: engaging in actions that one should not engage in.Knowledge seems to have two aspects in PL: science and morality. Raphael cautions Adam against delving into science, while God's prohibition against eating from the tree of knowledge appears to have a moral basis. If they eat from the tree, they will then be able to know good only in comparison to the bad (and, I would think, happiness only in comparison to sadness). That seems to be the "hangin" offense for God, while to go after knowledge qua science doesn't get them the death penalty.
Nice observation! By George, I think you've got it.DWill wrote: To me, he includes enough material in Book VIII on the Copernican system to signal to the reader that he is in the know. It is sort of anachronistic for Adam to be questioning the geocentric cosmology, though, unless Milton intends to show us how brilliant a guy Adam was!
By contrast, Eve gets to set the table and serve refreshments!Saffron wrote:Nice observation! By George, I think you've got it.DWill wrote: It is sort of anachronistic for Adam to be questioning the geocentric cosmology, though, unless Milton intends to show us how brilliant a guy Adam was!