Online reading group and book discussion forum
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:13 pm

<< Week of October 08, 2015 >>
Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday Monday Tuesday Wednesday
8 Day Month

9 Day Month

10 Day Month

11 Day Month

12 Day Month

13 Day Month

14 Day Month

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 3 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average. 
Varieties of Creationism 
Author Message
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
The Pope of Literature

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2553
Location: decentralized
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post
Gender: None specified

Post Varieties of Creationism
The first chapter or so of the book already makes it clear that there is not one Creationism movement but a diversity of movements with related features. I thought it might be useful if we had a thread to discuss the different varieties of Creationism and the features that dinstinguish them from one another. That should held us to keep them separate in our minds and deal with the unique features of each rather than getting them all in a muddle. So far, I've picked out the following terms and distinctions -- feel free to add any others that you find in the text or elsewhere.

Young Earth Creationists -- creationists who deny that the world has an age measured in aeons rather than thousands of years.

Intelligent Design Creationists -- a recent vogue in Creationism, as I understand it, allied around the notion of directed evolution.

special creationism -- the view that God created species in their present form, and that even if modifications can take place over time, they're never significant enough to defy the category of species.

theistic evolution -- the view that God creates through the laws of nature, potentially including even descent with modification.

Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:32 pm
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
The Pope of Literature

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2553
Location: decentralized
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post
Gender: None specified

Post Re: Varieties of Creationism
While we're at it, we could also throw in some of the terms of some religious beliefs that seem to necessitate a creationist view. What I mean is, there seem to be elements of some doctrines that, once you've accepted those doctrines, you're logically committed to side with creationism rather than Darwinian evolution. Offhand, I can think of one:

literal interpretation -- that is, the belief that everything written in a holy text is not only true, but a realistic (rather than symbollic, metaphoric or allegorical) account of history.

Allied with that is another, less obvious one:

historicism -- by which I mean, the view that the events related in the Bible are historically contiguous with what we perceive as secular history. That may seem like something of a given, but a broader view of the history of religion demonstrates that the Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition is somewhat novel in this regard. Other religions situate their mythological histories in a kind of parenthesis that isn't necessarily continuous or contiguous with natural time. Someone who makes a strong distinction between what Mircea Eliade called sacred time and profane time can conceivably hold a scientific theory like evolution to be true, while simultaneously believing in the events of the sacred time. Once you've braided the two together, though, it becomes difficult to accept a modification to your worldview (like the conclusions supported by Darwinian evolution) without doing damage to your religious convictions.

And a third occurs to me, one that isn't necessarily limited to religious belief, but the appeal of which can be strengthened by religion:

division into transcendent kinds -- I mean, for example, the desire to maintain a rigid distinction between man and other primates, just to give a familiar example. Traditional Christian doctrine doesn't make much of a point about speciation of that sort, so it makes sense to me to treat it as an element that is, in some ways, distinct from religion, although Creationists have looked to the Bible for scriptural justification of this desire. I suspect that it's a pretty complex bias, and it may be worth talking about the complications that underly it. Obviously, one element may be a sense of shame, but I think that's too easy an answer to account for the prominance of the "special kinds" argument. In that regard, I think it makes sense to look at other aspects -- for example, the complications that arise in morality once you're no longer capable of drawing a strict natural distinction between one species and another.

Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:44 pm
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
I dumpster dive for books!

Bronze Contributor

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1790
Thanks: 2
Thanked: 18 times in 13 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Varieties of Creationism
I think an important distinguishing feature between varieties of Creationism is the kind of ethical responsibility expected from humans toward Creation. In essence, a defining question would be: What does Stewardship look like according to this Creationist model?

One useful resource for this is captured via the Center for the Study of World Religions, Harvard Divinity School Religions of the World and Ecology Series by Harvard University Press.
The enormous challenges posed by the environmental crisis in its many complex and interlinking aspects have been much debated. Exploding population, diminishing resources, overconsumption, crippling poverty, rampant pollution, and unrestrained industrialization have created seemingly insoluble problems of global proportions. In searching for solutions to these interrelated problems, it is becoming increasingly clear that what is needed is recovery of mutually enhancing human-earth relations. One approach to reestablish a sense of balance with nature is to draw on worldviews that reflect this sense of reciprocity. This series examines the ecological implications of the beliefs, attitudes, rituals, and doctrines of various world religions in order to discover what they might offer to both the larger interdisciplinary dialogue on the environmental crisis and to the more immediate, pragmatic aspects of public policy and environmental ethics.

The World Council of Churches presents a kind of Creationism
To analyze and reflect on justice, peace and creation in their interrelatedness, to promote values and practices that make for a culture of peace, and to work towards a culture of solidarity with young people, women, Indigenous Peoples and racially and ethnically oppressed people.

The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops share a similar approach to Creation
For too long, the debate about climate change has been polarized. The science surrounding climate change is often used more as a weapon than as a source of wisdom, insight or guidance. The motives of many are impugned. In this atmosphere, the search for the common good of the human family, as well as the planet, is neglected or lost. Too often, the voices of the poor and of poor countries are muffled or ignored.

The Association of Muslim Sciences and Engineers includes a statement by the founder and director of the Islamic Foundation for Ecology and Environmental Sciences Fazlun Khalid:
In our eagerness to 'progress' and 'develop' we have lost sight of the finite and delicate nature of planet Earth and of humanity's place in it. Islamic teaching offers an opportunity to understand the natural order and to define human responsibility....Humankind has a special place in God's scheme. We are more than friends of the Earth - we are its guardians. Although we are equal partners with everything else in the natural world we have added responsibilities. We are decidedly not its lords and masters.

Edited by: Dissident Heart at: 10/19/06 3:13 pm

Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:07 pm
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 3 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average. 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for: Links 
Forum Rules & Tips
Frequently Asked Questions
BBCode Explained
Info for Authors & Publishers
Featured Book Suggestions
Author Interview Transcripts
Be a Book Discussion Leader!

Love to talk about books but don't have time for our book discussion forums? For casual book talk join us on Facebook.

Featured Books


The game isn't over yet so I've still got hope.  0%  [0]
I believe they can now I've read the book.  0%  [0]
Yes, I know things can change for the better.  0%  [0]
Seems razor thin whether we can pull it off.  0%  [0]
Total votes: 0

Books by New Authors


Of all time: Chris OConnor (14900), Interbane (6561), DWill (5268), stahrwe (4823), ant (4646), Robert Tulip (4549), geo (3740), Mr. Pessimistic (3542), johnson1010 (3426), Penelope (3153), Saffron (2898), Suzanne (2521), Frank 013 (2021), youkrst (1858), Dissident Heart (1790), bleachededen (1680), President Camacho (1637), Dexter (1623), Ophelia (1543), tat tvam asi (1298)

Of the last 24 hrs: geo (12), brother bob (8), Chris OConnor (4), Dexter (4), Interbane (3), ant (3), Taylor (1), RileyAChurchill (1), LanDroid (1), youkrst (1), Penelope (1), Robert Tulip (1), jimjimtk (1), JannDP (1) is a free book discussion group or online reading group or book club. We read and talk about both fiction and non-fiction books as a group. We host live author chats where booktalk members can interact with and interview authors. We give away free books to our members in book giveaway contests. Our booktalks are open to everybody who enjoys talking about books. Our book forums include book reviews, author interviews and book resources for readers and book lovers. Discussing books is our passion. We're a literature forum, or reading forum. Register a free book club account today! Suggest nonfiction and fiction books. Authors and publishers are welcome to advertise their books or ask for an author chat or author interview.



The Martian - by Andy WeirGood Thinking - by Guy P. HarrisonThe Post-American World: Release 2.0 - by Fareed ZakariaGo Set a Watchman: A Novel - by Harper LeeFlowers for Algernon - by Daniel KeyesGoing Clear - by Lawrence WrightKing Henry IV, Part 1 - by William ShakespeareAtheist Mind, Humanist Heart - by Lex Bayer and John FigdorSense and Goodness Without God - by Richard CarrierFrankenstein - by Mary ShelleyThe Big Questions - by Simon BlackburnScience Was Born of Christianity - by Stacy TrasancosThe Happiness Hypothesis - by Jonathan HaidtA Game of Thrones - by George R. R. MartinTempesta's Dream - by Vincent LoCocoWhy Nations Fail - by Daron Acemoglu and James RobinsonThe Drowning Girl - Caitlin R. KiernanThe Consolations of the Forest - by Sylvain TessonThe Complete Heretic's Guide to Western Religion: The Mormons - by David FitzgeraldA Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man - by James JoyceThe Divine Comedy - by Dante AlighieriThe Magic of Reality - by Richard DawkinsDubliners - by James JoyceMy Name Is Red - by Orhan PamukThe World Until Yesterday - by Jared DiamondThe Man Who Was Thursday - by by G. K. ChestertonThe Better Angels of Our Nature by Steven PinkerLord Jim by Joseph ConradThe Hobbit by J. R. R. TolkienThe Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas AdamsAtlas Shrugged by Ayn RandThinking, Fast and Slow - by Daniel KahnemanThe Righteous Mind - by Jonathan HaidtWorld War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War by Max BrooksMoby Dick: or, the Whale by Herman MelvilleA Visit from the Goon Squad by Jennifer EganLost Memory of Skin: A Novel by Russell BanksThe Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas S. KuhnHobbes: Leviathan by Thomas HobbesThe House of the Spirits - by Isabel AllendeArguably: Essays by Christopher HitchensThe Falls: A Novel (P.S.) by Joyce Carol OatesChrist in Egypt by D.M. MurdockThe Glass Bead Game: A Novel by Hermann HesseA Devil's Chaplain by Richard DawkinsThe Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph CampbellThe Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor DostoyevskyThe Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark TwainThe Moral Landscape by Sam HarrisThe Decameron by Giovanni BoccaccioThe Road by Cormac McCarthyThe Grand Design by Stephen HawkingThe Evolution of God by Robert WrightThe Tin Drum by Gunter GrassGood Omens by Neil GaimanPredictably Irrational by Dan ArielyThe Wind-Up Bird Chronicle: A Novel by Haruki MurakamiALONE: Orphaned on the Ocean by Richard Logan & Tere Duperrault FassbenderDon Quixote by Miguel De CervantesMusicophilia by Oliver SacksDiary of a Madman and Other Stories by Nikolai GogolThe Passion of the Western Mind by Richard TarnasThe Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le GuinThe Genius of the Beast by Howard BloomAlice's Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll Empire of Illusion by Chris HedgesThe Sound and the Fury by William Faulkner The Extended Phenotype by Richard DawkinsSmoke and Mirrors by Neil GaimanThe Selfish Gene by Richard DawkinsWhen Good Thinking Goes Bad by Todd C. RinioloHouse of Leaves by Mark Z. DanielewskiAmerican Gods: A Novel by Neil GaimanPrimates and Philosophers by Frans de WaalThe Enormous Room by E.E. CummingsThe Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar WildeGod Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything by Christopher HitchensThe Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco Dreams From My Father by Barack Obama Paradise Lost by John Milton Bad Money by Kevin PhillipsThe Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson BurnettGodless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists by Dan BarkerThe Things They Carried by Tim O'BrienThe Limits of Power by Andrew BacevichLolita by Vladimir NabokovOrlando by Virginia Woolf On Being Certain by Robert A. Burton50 reasons people give for believing in a god by Guy P. HarrisonWalden: Or, Life in the Woods by Henry David ThoreauExile and the Kingdom by Albert CamusOur Inner Ape by Frans de WaalYour Inner Fish by Neil ShubinNo Country for Old Men by Cormac McCarthyThe Age of American Unreason by Susan JacobyTen Theories of Human Nature by Leslie Stevenson & David HabermanHeart of Darkness by Joseph ConradThe Stuff of Thought by Stephen PinkerA Thousand Splendid Suns by Khaled HosseiniThe Lucifer Effect by Philip ZimbardoResponsibility and Judgment by Hannah ArendtInterventions by Noam ChomskyGodless in America by George A. RickerReligious Expression and the American Constitution by Franklyn S. HaimanDeep Economy by Phil McKibbenThe God Delusion by Richard DawkinsThe Third Chimpanzee by Jared DiamondThe Woman in the Dunes by Abe KoboEvolution vs. Creationism by Eugenie C. ScottThe Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael PollanI, Claudius by Robert GravesBreaking The Spell by Daniel C. DennettA Peace to End All Peace by David FromkinThe Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey NiffeneggerThe End of Faith by Sam HarrisEnder's Game by Orson Scott CardThe Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark HaddonValue and Virtue in a Godless Universe by Erik J. WielenbergThe March by E. L DoctorowThe Ethical Brain by Michael GazzanigaFreethinkers: A History of American Secularism by Susan JacobyCollapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared DiamondThe Battle for God by Karen ArmstrongThe Future of Life by Edward O. WilsonWhat is Good? by A. C. GraylingCivilization and Its Enemies by Lee HarrisPale Blue Dot by Carl SaganHow We Believe: Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God by Michael ShermerLooking for Spinoza by Antonio DamasioLies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them by Al FrankenThe Red Queen by Matt RidleyThe Blank Slate by Stephen PinkerUnweaving the Rainbow by Richard DawkinsAtheism: A Reader edited by S.T. JoshiGlobal Brain by Howard BloomThe Lucifer Principle by Howard BloomGuns, Germs and Steel by Jared DiamondThe Demon-Haunted World by Carl SaganBury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee BrownFuture Shock by Alvin Toffler

Banned Book ListOur SalesMassimo Pigliucci Rationally SpeakingOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism BooksFACTS Book Selections

Copyright © 2002-2015. All rights reserved.
Display Pagerank