Universal Common Ancestor/The experiment

Asana Bodhitharta

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I think I have found proof that god does NOT exist, it is Asana. Considering how often Asana is wrong (it must be close to 100% of the time.) his claim of god must also certainly be wrong.

First of all I couldn't be wrong discussing a theory, therefore I could not be 100% wrong.

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Wow Asana this coming from you is incredible, you, (the person who literally has not made a single verifiable claim in your history of being on booktalk) are calling someone else ignorant.

The second point I would like to make is when I said the statement was ignorant it was meant in the sense of Lacking knowledge. That is why I said "of course you must know" but if irishrosem did not know what I meant then yes of course it was an ignorant statement.

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These studies have everything to do with one another, the geological record, comparative anatomy, DNA and genome research, together paint the overall picture of evolution.

DNA and Evolution are very far apart in fact it will be DNA and genome research that will most likely end the ToE. ToE had a much stroger grip on society years ago.

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I’ll tell you what, you dig one up and we can talk. Besides there are literally thousands of other species that would fall into the “god destroyed” category; where did the dinosaurs go? Are they just hiding?

How could God destroy anything if you say He(HU) doesn't exist?

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Again Ill ask, care to back that statement up with some tangible evidence?

And your normal intelligence/overall existence “evidence” does not count because it has already been explained better by science.

It does count and Abiogenesis is not a better explanation for the creation of life since biogenesis happens every single second and there are no cases of Abiogenesis.

Which has better evidence Frank 013.

Life creates Life or Dead Matter creates Life?
Intelligence comes from a source of intelligence or Intelligence comes from Ignorance.

The fact is you can't see the clear evidence because your too close to the problem. Your like a beautiful woman who thinks she's unattractive you just can't see the truth.

Asana Bodhitharta

013.002
YUSUFALI: Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne (of authority); He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)! Each one runs (its course) for a term appointed. He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord.

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YUSUFALI: The sun and the moon follow courses (exactly) computed

039.005
YUSUFALI: He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again?

035.013
YUSUFALI: He merges Night into Day, and he merges Day into Night, and he has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law): each one runs its course for a term appointed. Such is Allah your Lord: to Him belongs all Dominion. And those whom ye invoke besides Him have not the least power.

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YUSUFALI: Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day and he merges Day into Night; that He has subjected the sun, and the moon (to his Law), each running its course for a term appointed; and that Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do?

029.061
YUSUFALI: If indeed thou ask them who has created the heavens and the earth and subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law), they will certainly reply, "Allah". How are they then deluded away (from the truth)?

016.012
YUSUFALI: He has made subject to you the Night and the Day; the sun and the moon; and the stars are in subjection by His Command: verily in this are Signs for men who are wise.

013.004
SHAKIR: And in the earth there are tracts side by side and gardens of grapes and corn and palm trees having one root and (others) having distinct roots-- they are watered with one water, and We make some of them excel others in fruit; most surely there are signs in this for a people who understand.

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YUSUFALI: It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty), and measured out stages for her; that ye might know the number of years and the count (of time). Nowise did Allah create this but in truth and righteousness. (Thus) doth He explain His Signs in detail, for those who understand.

Frank013 How can you deny these signs? How do you think there are so many crops all of different flavors and different beauty. How do you not see how the moons light is situated to be shown in segments that time can be established by it.

Truly you do overlook the obvious everything comes from the earth yet their are fruits that you eat and otherthings you do not eat but both are from the same components of the earth. Will you not receive admonition?

Frank 013

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013.002
YUSUFALI: Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne (of authority);

Says who? And give me one good reason to believe them.

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He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)!

Which law is this?

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Each one runs (its course) for a term appointed. He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail,

Show me this detail.

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that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord.

This is not evidence of any kind for anything, neither is it any kind of prediction.

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055.005
YUSUFALI: The sun and the moon follow courses (exactly) computed

Just about every person on the planet knew that the day and knight were separate and worked in cycles.

I’m really glad god was around to tell the people these things or they might have missed it. ::73

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039.005
YUSUFALI: He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions):

What proportions? Does god bother to give specific measurements?

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He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night:

Really how did he do this?

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He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law):

Which law is this again?

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Each one follows a course for a time appointed.

Again this is obviously observed by almost everyone. there is no need to attribute it to a god.

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Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again?

Nope, afraid not!

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035.013
YUSUFALI: He merges Night into Day, and he merges Day into Night, and he has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law): each one runs its course for a term appointed. Such is Allah your Lord: to Him belongs all Dominion. And those whom ye invoke besides Him have not the least power.

Same stuff as above.

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031.029
YUSUFALI: Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day and he merges Day into Night; that He has subjected the sun, and the moon (to his Law), each running its course for a term appointed; and that Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do?

Ah, the old watcher in the sky… better watch out, better not cry, better not pout, I’m telling you why, Allah is watching from the sky!

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029.061
YUSUFALI: If indeed thou ask them who has created the heavens and the earth and subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law), they will certainly reply, "Allah". How are they then deluded away (from the truth)?

Yes let’s ask…

Allah; who has created the heavens and the earth and subjected the sun and the moon ?

Still waiting… no answer... a little thirsty though, does that count?

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016.012
YUSUFALI: He has made subject to you the Night and the Day; the sun and the moon; and the stars are in subjection by His Command: verily in this are Signs for men who are wise.

013.004
SHAKIR: And in the earth there are tracts side by side and gardens of grapes and corn and palm trees having one root and (others) having distinct roots-- they are watered with one water, and We make some of them excel others in fruit; most surely there are signs in this for a people who understand.

Yes I understand this; it is an example of obvious knowledge being attributed to a god.

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010.005
YUSUFALI: It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty), and measured out stages for her; that ye might know the number of years and the count (of time). Nowise did Allah create this but in truth and righteousness. (Thus) doth He explain His Signs in detail, for those who understand.

Again cycles of the sun and moon were no secret to ancient humans. This is another clear case of people attributing natural phenomena to an imaginary being.

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Frank013 How can you deny these signs?

Because they are not signs, they are barely disguised religious tricks.

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How do you think there are so many crops all of different flavors and different beauty. How do you not see how the moons light is situated to be shown in segments that time can be established by it?

Humans recognized a pattern nothing more. You truly are screwed up!

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Truly you do overlook the obvious everything comes from the earth yet their are fruits that you eat and other things you do not eat but both are from the same components of the earth. Will you not receive admonition?

Jeeze, do you have encephalitis? You seem to be suffering from some kind of brain damage.

I do not see anything obvious about a big, hairy, magic, man in the sky creating things willy-nilly, and what I eat is hardly evidence to that end.

Furthermore every unnamed law, cycle, celestial object, or food source mentioned has a better scientific explanation than… “The magic man who watches us from the sky did it.”

It is as ridiculous as it sounds.

Later

Edited by: Frank 013 at: 11/29/06 10:00 pm

Asana Bodhitharta

In the Quaran, God calls our attention to a very interesting attribute of the sky:

021.032
SHAKIR: And We have made the heaven a guarded canopy and (yet) they turn aside from its signs.

Most people looking at the sky do not think about the protective aspect of the atmosphere and the crucial functions that it serves. While destroying many metors big and small from falling to earth and harming living things. In addition, the atmosphere filters the light rays coming from space that are harmful to living things.You do know that the atmosphere also protects the earth from the freezing cold of the space, right?

Was this information also known 1400 years ago?

078.006-078.007
YUSUFALI: Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse,
And the mountains as pegs?

Mountains have roots deep under the surface of the ground. (Earth,Press and Siever, p. 413)

Mountains, like pegs, have deep roots embedded in the ground.
(Anatomy of the Earth, Cailleux, p.220)

mountains are peglike in shape, due to their deep roots.
(Earth Science,Tarbuck and Lutgens,p.15

021.031
YUSUFALI: And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them, and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may receive Guidance

This vital role of mountains, that was discovered by modern geology and seismic research, was revealed in the Qur'an centuries ago as an example of the supreme wisdom in God's creation.

With extensions that mountains extend out towards under the ground as well as over the ground, they clench different plates of the earth together like a peg. The Earth's crust
consists of plates that are in constant motion. This clenching property of mountains prevents shocks to a great extent, by fixing the earth's crust, which has a very movable structure.

(Earth Science,
Tarbuck and Lutgens,)

Was this information also known 1400 years ago?

Frank 013 I learned these things from the Quaran so how is this holy book not scientific. God created man so they might study His creation and know the Magnificence of their Lord.

Federika22

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God created man so they might study His creation and know the Magnificence of their Lord

Asana, your invisible friend seems like a self-centered, narcissistic nutso. Truly, you can't come up with a better reason for the creation of man than that? And I bet this sounds reasonable to you...

Nice job answering Frank's questions, btw. (Sarcasm) If you're trying to win atheist souls to your idea of god, you should probably at least answer questions by atheists, especially about stuff you've written. When you sidestep them it looks a bit obvious that you don't know what you're talking about. You are not doing the theist camp any favors by posting here.
In fact there be an eternal punishment awaiting you for making your god look so stupid and for keeping us atheists atheist. ::144

Asana Bodhitharta

Federika22,

The one thing I can't understand is the perverse desire for some of you to post irrelevent attacks if you notice most of the time that frank 013 is responding to one of my post he is actually arguing against something i've written.

It's okay to insult me, just add some informational element to your attacks. You don't seem to understand how completely moronic it is to post negative comments without any complimentary rebuttal of actual information.

Frank 013 engages, your just throwing stones.

irishrosem · Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:38 pm Post subject: Re:

You stated:

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False. you can look at fishapod and say it came from God because it exists.

But you also stated:

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You cannot simply look at one thing and say that it came from something else.

I stated:
These are contradictory. Please explain how both statements can be true.

Asana, you have yet to explain this. Do you ignore it because you are fearful you will look the fool? Trust me, you already look foolish when you counter sound arguments with scriptural nonsense. So just explain the contradiction. Your simple mind understands the request, yes?

Asana Bodhitharta · Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:27 pm Post subject: Re:

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You stated:

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False. you can look at fishapod and say it came from God because it exists.
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When I say "came from" in this statement I am referring to Fishapod being created.

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But you also stated:

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You cannot simply look at one thing and say that it came from something else.
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When I say "came from" in this statement I am referring to evolution (Macro Evolution).

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I stated:
These are contradictory. Please explain how both statements can be true.

We know that both of these statements can be made without contradiction because the first statement is talking about the fact that the fishapod exist so we know that it was "created". However the second statement is comparing two created objects and stating that the existence of one is not related to the other.

A perfect example is this you can look at the Sun and say, "The sun was created" how do you know? The evidence is the sun itself.

But you cannot say, "The sun came out of the moon" There is no evidence for that.

I hope that finally explains what I was saying.

There are so many animals we have never even seen. No one needs to look at fossils to find unique animals. Where did this evolve from?

www.boingboing.net/fishteeth8io.jpg

Edited by: Asana Bodhitharta at: 11/30/06 3:28 pm

Classical Celt · Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:06 pm Post subject: Re:

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There are so many animals we have never even seen. No one needs to look at fossils to find unique animals. Where did this evolve from?

The picture shows a fish with teeth. What is the point? Plenty of fish have teeth.

Asana Bodhitharta · Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:19 pm Post subject: Re:

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The picture shows a fish with teeth. What is the point? Plenty of fish have teeth

Teeth like this?

Frank 013 · Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:24 pm Post subject: Re:false science from the quaran!

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021.032
SHAKIR: And We have made the heaven a guarded canopy and (yet) they turn aside from its signs.

This quote is not from the quaran, in the thread where we debated the 72 virgin myth you said that scriptures taken from other sources were not accurate, so I took the liberty of adding the actual quaran verses.

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Quaran: 21:32 And we have made the sky a roof withheld. Yet they turn away from its portents.

This says nothing about a protective covering and besides biblical scholars in ancient and medieval times believed that the heavens held back water, which was the source of the protective description.

Not scientific by a long shot.

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078.006-078.007
YUSUFALI: Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse,
And the mountains as pegs?

Again not from the quaran.

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Quaran: 78:6 Have We not made the earth an expanse,

No pegs are mentioned, but even so there is a problem with the peg terminology.

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021.031
YUSUFALI: And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them, and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may receive Guidance

Not from the quaran.

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Quaran: 21:31 And We have placed in the earth firm hills lest it quake with them, and We have placed therein ravines as roads that haply they may find their way.

First of all mountains do not have roots/pegs, I viewed an article supporting this idea and the research was done by a Muslim “science” group. I could not find any reference to a root or peg system in the works you offered up. At any rate, the findings are flatly refuted by the existence of Subduction zones, places where tectonic plates cross over each other. In some places plates are moving directly under mountains. This is not possible if a mountain is held in place by a peg, which would have the shape of say a nail.

But the clearest problem with this is the fact that mountains are supposed to keep the earth from shaking. There is no evidence of this whatsoever.

Here is some more of the quaran’s greatest scientific hits.

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Quaran: 18:86 Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.

The sun sets in a muddy spring at night?

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Quaran: 27:61 Is not He (best) Who made the earth a fixed abode,

So the earth does not move?

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Quaran: 81:2 And when the stars fall,

Can’t happen.

The quaran is as full of Bull as the bible, this is not surprising considering they come from the same source… Ignorant desert nomads.

Later

Edited by: Frank 013 at: 11/30/06 8:35 pm

Asana Bodhitharta · Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:40 pm Post subject: Re: The Game is over

Frank 013,

In all seriousness either concede to the last point or regret posting false arguments later. I have already studied this matter in depth and no scientist anywhere at anytime has ever observed NEW information Added to DNA naturally.

Do you agree or will you be forced to retract later?

I did not put this information down as a guess I had previously posted it on sites where scientist and geneticist frequent. No one here or anywhere can refute the information.

Frank 013 · Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:30 pm Post subject: Re: The Game is over for Asana!

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Can you show me anywhere in historical literature that adherents of Islam believed that "oceans of water were just beyond the heavens or any such similar beliefs"? The Game is over!

Here is an article about the Old Testament and ancient Hebrew ideas about the universe. www.edwardtbabinski.us/sk...verse.html

Islam was (in reality) developed in the 6th century and the Old Testament and by this time also Christian belief was as I stated before that the waters beyond the heavens existed.

Islam obviously believed the same thing, (it was the popular belief of the time) the imagery of the quaran explains. Floating orbits, boats, a fixed earth. All fall into the description of the universe given by the Old Testament.

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I did not say as altered by science, I said as observed by science.
In other words it happened naturally.
The Game is over.

First of all scientists did observe their results, it was an experiment of their own making but the addition of DNA has been observed.

Second humans are a natural occurring species on this planet, so anything humans do is by definition natural.

I know this is not what you were looking for, but it does “technically” satisfy your question.

And here comes the whining!

Later

Frank 013 · Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:35 pm Post subject: Re: The Game is over for Asana!

Asana,

I have answered and soundly destroyed every question and assumption you have put forth, how about going back and answering some of mine for a change?

Later


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