Online reading group and book discussion forum
  HOME FORUMS BLOGS BOOKS LINKS DONATE ADVERTISE CONTACT  
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:57 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 4 posts ] 
There Is An Alternative 
Author Message
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
I dumpster dive for books!

Bronze Contributor

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1796
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 14 times in 12 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post There Is An Alternative
Maggie Thatcher has been identified as the source of the acronym: TINA, There Is No Alternative...referring to the dominant economic model of corporate globalization and its attending social, political, and industrial structures. Her argument was that there was no other way to do economics and that supply side, trickle down corporate capitalism was the natural course of events- one that was justified by the sheer simplicity of its internal logic and the the rubble of the communist iron curtain.

I think McKibben's book exposes many of the fallacies of TINA (fundamental to which is the fetish for economic growth). I think McKibben traces (without great detail and highly dependent upon other sources) the flaws of TINA; but he also explores many alternatives...different ways to do economics.

I hope this thread can become a place to dicuss alternative economic models and visions: both in theory and in practice. So, let's hear it from the green bio-regionalist, anarcho-syndicalist, socialist-libertarian, orthodox-marxist, parecon-anarchist, or any other economic vision that says, "Wait a minute, this is not the only way to build an economy....there is an alternative!"




Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:13 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Laughs at Einstein


Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 433
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post
Gender: None specified

Post Re: There Is An Alternative
Quote:
Here's the bottom line: if the oil runs out, we won't be able to farm or trade this way any longer. And if we took global warming seriously, we'd stop doing it right now... (p65-66)


There's an absolute simplicity to that statement that hit me when I read it, and makes me wonder what it will take to have everyone feel the need to change their ways.

Does the rising water levels have to be lapping at their doorstep for people to say "Oh, maybe..."?

Which brings me to the point -- Have governments thought through the scenarios where the ice caps melt and coastal cities are, probably quite quickly, submerged? I know it was part of my thinking when we moved to an interior town.

"All beings are the owners of their deeds, the heirs to their deeds."

Loricat's Book Nook
Celebrating the Absurd




Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:39 am
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
I dumpster dive for books!

Bronze Contributor

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1796
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 14 times in 12 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: There Is An Alternative
loricat: Does the rising water levels have to be lapping at their doorstep for people to say "Oh, maybe..."?

I suspect, even then, the reasons for why things need to change will be packaged as concerns non-related to fossil fuel use or not connected to our dominant economic models. Sure, there's disaster at our doorstep, but don't expect me to change my way of life...it has nothing to do with me!

Addicts can be well aware of the catastrophe waiting to happen, have mountains of evidence pertaining to past catastrophes, and be thoroughly convinced that their current behaviors must change....and still use. There are complex interconnections rooted in brain chemistry, bad habits, familial dysfunction, peer pressure, social and cultural norms, and individual unhappiness.

loricat: Have governments thought through the scenarios where the ice caps melt and coastal cities are, probably quite quickly, submerged?

I think most governments have various components of disaster preparedness scenarios in place, but if New Orleans and Katrina is any indication...I suspect we have a long way to go before we can rest assured with any planning currently underway.

Interestingly, it is city and local governments that are leading the way in embracing governmental regulation and legal frameworks for turning the tide. For example, this is a segment of the The U.S. Mayors Climate Protection Agreement signed by over 400 Mayors
Quote:
We will strive to meet or exceed Kyoto Protocol targets for reducing global warming pollution by taking actions in our own operations and communities such as:

1. Inventory global warming emissions in City operations and in the community, set reduction targets and create an action plan.
2. Adopt and enforce land-use policies that reduce sprawl, preserve open space, and create compact, walkable urban communities;
3. Promote transportation options such as bicycle trails, commute trip reduction programs, incentives for car pooling and public transit;
4. Increase the use of clean, alternative energy by, or example, investing in "green tags", advocating for the development of renewable energy resources, and recovering landfill methane for energy production;
5. Make energy efficiency a priority through building code improvements, retrofitting city facilities with energy efficient lighting and urging employees to conserve energy and save money;
6. Purchase only Energy Star equipment and appliances for City use;
7. Practice and promote sustainable building practices using the U.S. Green Building Council's LEED program or a similar system;
8. Increase the average fuel efficiency of municipal fleet vehicles; reduce the number of vehicles; launch an employee education program including anti-idling messages; convert diesel vehicles to bio-diesel;
9. Evaluate opportunities to increase pump efficiency in water and wastewater systems; recover wastewater treatment methane for energy production;
10. Increase recycling rates in City operations and in the community;
11. Maintain healthy urban forests; promote tree planting to increase shading and to absorb CO2; and
12. Help educate the public, schools, other jurisdictions, professional associations, business and industry about reducing global warming pollution.




Sat May 19, 2007 1:52 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
I dumpster dive for books!

Bronze Contributor

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1796
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 14 times in 12 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: There Is An Alternative
I think its important for those of us who think the dominant economic model is no longer sustainable, to offer an alternative. It's not enough to say what's wrong; it's essential to provide values, models and examples of what ought to replace it.

One of the things I find very valuable about McKibben's book is that it is not simply a funeral dirge through the wastelands of 21st Century Corporate Industrial Capitalism. He manages to balance the problem (self-destructive reliance to fossil fuels rooted in autistic economies of hyper-individualism) with multiple examples of solutions (neighborliness tied to local economies rooted in farmer's markets and ecological wisdom).

One particular economic model that I have found especially hopeful is Parecon (Participatory Economics).
Quote:
Participatory Economics (Parecon for short) is a type of economy proposed as an alternative to contemporary capitalism. The underlying values are equity, solidarity, diversity, and participatory self management. The main institutions are workers and consumers councils utilizing self managed decision making, balanced job complexes, remuneration according to effort and sacrifice, and participatory planning.


Parecon: Life After Capitalism by Michael Albert is the primary text in the participatory economics movement. Here is the entire text on-line.

This very interesting site provides a thought-provoking comparison of Capitalism and Participatory Economics.




Sat May 26, 2007 1:40 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 4 posts ] 



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:

Recent Posts 

BookTalk.org Links 
Forum Rules & Tips
Frequently Asked Questions
BBCode Explained
Info for Authors & Publishers
Featured Book Suggestions
Author Interview Transcripts
Be a Book Discussion Leader!
    

Love to talk about books but don't have time for our book discussion forums? For casual book talk join us on Facebook.

Support BookTalk.org 
If you appreciate BookTalk.org please consider donating a few dollars to help keep us online. See who supports us.
Make a donation
RECENT DONATIONS:
• giselle - $50 January
• nomsisa - $50 September
• giselle - $50 September

Featured Books

Recent Blogging 

The 12th Disciple and Poor Richard's Downtown Colorado Springs

The 12th Disciple is now being stocked at Poor Richard's Bookstore in Colorado Springs. We're happy to have the title at such a historic location in Colorado Springs. If… more

Posted: 13 days ago
by 12th disciple

...

For most of us, a very big part of our lives will be a dark place, we wont realize it. We live, we eat, we have some fun, we go to school, we sleep. But it will come the time, when… more

Posted: 14 days ago
by aracelip7

Hello world!

Welcome to BookTalk.org Blogs. This is your first post. Edit or delete it, then start blogging!

See those links at the very top of the page? To get into your control panel for… more

Posted: 15 days ago
by drewdamato

There's an election this year?

The 12th Disciple's endorsement for a Presidential Candidate...we'll pass. If many haven't learned over the past several decades, centuries, and millennia, the gover… more

Posted: 21 days ago
by 12th disciple

New Books

So I've been looking for new books to read, but I haven't found any that have caught my attention lately. I want to try and venture out into a different genre, but I'… more

Posted: 27 days ago
by spazzymagee

Unethical Apple

For those who constantly gripe about jobs being sent overseas, focus your anger on this. Read about how one of the most profitable companies prided by American citizens offshores t… more

Posted: 28 days ago
by vetwriter

Role of the Individual Augmentee in the Military

An article of mine regarding the role of the Individual Augmentee in the military has been published on Blogging Authors. Read the article at:

http://bloggingauthors.com/bl… more

Posted: 30 days ago
by vetwriter

Hello world!

Welcome to BookTalk.org Blogs. This is your first post. Edit or delete it, then start blogging!

See those links at the very top of the page? To get into your control panel for… more

Posted: 31 days ago
by mryan2930

A Second In Time

Its January 1945 and British, Commonwealth, US and POWs from various other nationalities are finally awaiting liberation from the various camps in Eastern Europe, where some of the… more

Posted: 31 days ago
by carolemct

Hiding The Details In The Fine Print Still Works

A good friend of mine recently received a pre-paid credit card. She went to pay for a $20.00 gas purchase only to later find out that over a $70.00 hold was placed on her card for… more

Posted: 32 days ago
by life is a business

There’s No Such Thing As A Blank Canvas In Life

While watching the bube tube (TV) this morning I stumbled on a motivational speaker saying “today marks a new year, you now have a blank canvas to work from.”

After hearing th… more

Posted: 40 days ago
by life is a business

Happy New Year!

The 12th Disciple wishes you and yours a Happy New Year. Many of us hope and pray that 2012 will bring better leadership in the government of the United States, better leadership i… more

Posted: 41 days ago
by 12th disciple

Does fiction have a role to play in educating people about real events?

The Cat & The Nightingale Saga, the docu drama version of The Weekend Trippers, also tells Rifleman Ted TaylorÂ’s story but in a slightly different way. It too tells of the… more

Posted: 41 days ago
by carolemct

Out With The Woe Is Me And in With The “Look At Me”

In 2011 I published my book; in the book I outlined 9 Key Principles to Prosperity (happiness).  Like many of you, I walked through 2011 with the Woe is me attitude. When… more

Posted: 41 days ago
by life is a business

Original Thoughts, Do They Exist Anymore?

More and more these days I see people using social media to quote what someone else has said. I see people posting their favorite rappers lyrics, lines from movies and what seems t… more

Posted: 43 days ago
by life is a business

14th December. Wednesday

IÂ’m down the school for the first time today. My friend visited two weeks ago and said it was chaos. They must have heard I was back because everything is tidy and orderly today… more

Posted: 50 days ago
by heledd

...

I'm quite positive that everyone who enters this site has the same thing in mind: fear of seeing a world without books, without literature. We see it everyday, more people qui… more

Posted: 51 days ago
by aracelip7

12 December, Monday

For once in my life I step off the plane at Banjul, and donÂ’t get a rush of elation. I went home to see my daughterÂ’s twins safely delivered. They are all well now, but IÂ’m goin… more

Posted: 54 days ago
by heledd

It's the Most Wonderful Time of the Year...For Some.

The 12th Disciple is up and running. We have a page on Facebook if you'd like to come join us for updates and other miscellaneous debris.

Hanukkah runs from the 20th-28th. … more

Posted: 56 days ago
by 12th disciple

Handle Your Business!

Last weekend I witnessed a couple of family members literally fall apart at the seams because of a problem with a couple of their employees. They recently opened a group home, and … more

Posted: 57 days ago
by life is a business





BookTalk.org Chat Room 
Enter the BookTalk.org Chat Room

Enter our Chat [0]

Chat Room Always Open!

Tell your friends when to meet you
in the BookTalk.org Chat Room.

Booktalk.org on Facebook 


If you enjoy business bestsellers and would like to expand your business knowledge check out the quality book summaries offered by the world's leading book summary company.




BookTalk.org is a free book discussion group or online reading group or book club. We read and talk about both fiction and non-fiction books as a group. We host live author chats where booktalk members can interact with and interview authors. We give away free books to our members in book giveaway contests. Our booktalks are open to everybody who enjoys talking about books. Our book forums include book reviews, author interviews and book resources for readers and book lovers. Discussing books is our passion. We're a literature forum, or reading forum. Register a free book club account today! Suggest nonfiction and fiction books. Authors and publishers are welcome to advertise their books or ask for an author chat or author interview.


Navigation 
MAIN NAVIGATION

HOMEFORUMSBOOKSTRANSCRIPTSOLD FORUMSADVERTISELINKSBLOGSFAQDONATETERMS OF USEPRIVACY POLICY

BOOK FORUMS FOR ALL BOOKS WE HAVE DISCUSSED
Lost Memory of Skin: A Novel by Russell BanksThe Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas S. KuhnHobbes: Leviathan by Thomas HobbesThe House of the Spirits - by Isabel AllendeArguably: Essays by Christopher HitchensThe Falls: A Novel (P.S.) by Joyce Carol OatesChrist in Egypt by D.M. MurdockThe Glass Bead Game: A Novel by Hermann HesseA Devil's Chaplain by Richard DawkinsThe Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph CampbellThe Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor DostoyevskyThe Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark TwainThe Moral Landscape by Sam HarrisThe Decameron by Giovanni BoccaccioThe Road by Cormac McCarthyThe Grand Design by Stephen HawkingThe Evolution of God by Robert WrightThe Tin Drum by Gunter GrassGood Omens by Neil GaimanPredictably Irrational by Dan ArielyThe Wind-Up Bird Chronicle: A Novel by Haruki MurakamiALONE: Orphaned on the Ocean by Richard Logan & Tere Duperrault FassbenderDon Quixote by Miguel De CervantesMusicophilia by Oliver SacksDiary of a Madman and Other Stories by Nikolai GogolThe Passion of the Western Mind by Richard TarnasThe Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le GuinThe Genius of the Beast by Howard BloomAlice's Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll Empire of Illusion by Chris HedgesThe Sound and the Fury by William Faulkner The Extended Phenotype by Richard DawkinsSmoke and Mirrors by Neil GaimanThe Selfish Gene by Richard DawkinsWhen Good Thinking Goes Bad by Todd C. RinioloHouse of Leaves by Mark Z. DanielewskiAmerican Gods: A Novel by Neil GaimanPrimates and Philosophers by Frans de WaalThe Enormous Room by E.E. CummingsThe Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar WildeGod Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything by Christopher HitchensThe Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco Dreams From My Father by Barack Obama Paradise Lost by John Milton Bad Money by Kevin PhillipsThe Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson BurnettGodless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists by Dan BarkerThe Things They Carried by Tim O'BrienThe Limits of Power by Andrew BacevichLolita by Vladimir NabokovOrlando by Virginia Woolf On Being Certain by Robert A. Burton50 reasons people give for believing in a god by Guy P. HarrisonWalden: Or, Life in the Woods by Henry David ThoreauExile and the Kingdom by Albert CamusOur Inner Ape by Frans de WaalYour Inner Fish by Neil ShubinNo Country for Old Men by Cormac McCarthyThe Age of American Unreason by Susan JacobyTen Theories of Human Nature by Leslie Stevenson & David HabermanHeart of Darkness by Joseph ConradThe Stuff of Thought by Stephen PinkerA Thousand Splendid Suns by Khaled HosseiniThe Lucifer Effect by Philip ZimbardoResponsibility and Judgment by Hannah ArendtInterventions by Noam ChomskyGodless in America by George A. RickerReligious Expression and the American Constitution by Franklyn S. HaimanDeep Economy by Phil McKibbenThe God Delusion by Richard DawkinsThe Third Chimpanzee by Jared DiamondThe Woman in the Dunes by Abe KoboEvolution vs. Creationism by Eugenie C. ScottThe Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael PollanI, Claudius by Robert GravesBreaking The Spell by Daniel C. DennettA Peace to End All Peace by David FromkinThe Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey NiffeneggerThe End of Faith by Sam HarrisEnder's Game by Orson Scott CardThe Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark HaddonValue and Virtue in a Godless Universe by Erik J. WielenbergThe March by E. L DoctorowThe Ethical Brain by Michael GazzanigaFreethinkers: A History of American Secularism by Susan JacobyCollapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared DiamondThe Battle for God by Karen ArmstrongThe Future of Life by Edward O. WilsonWhat is Good? by A. C. GraylingCivilization and Its Enemies by Lee HarrisPale Blue Dot by Carl SaganHow We Believe: Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God by Michael ShermerLooking for Spinoza by Antonio DamasioLies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them by Al FrankenThe Red Queen by Matt RidleyThe Blank Slate by Stephen PinkerUnweaving the Rainbow by Richard DawkinsAtheism: A Reader edited by S.T. JoshiGlobal Brain by Howard BloomThe Lucifer Principle by Howard BloomGuns, Germs and Steel by Jared DiamondThe Demon-Haunted World by Carl SaganBury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee BrownFuture Shock by Alvin Toffler

OTHER PAGES WORTH EXPLORING
Banned Book ListOur Amazon.com SalesMassimo Pigliucci Rationally SpeakingOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism BooksFACTS Book Selections

cron
Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2011. All rights reserved.
Website developed by MidnightCoder.ca
Display Pagerank