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The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper 
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Post The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper
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Leonardo modelled the twelve apostles on the twelve constellations of the zodiac, around Jesus Christ as the sun.

Examine the positions of the hands of each apostle and compare them to the diagram of the constellation below, in order of the twelve heads across.

Aries: three visible stars with long line and short line joined at angle of 150 degrees
Taurus: One hand forms the Hyades around Aldebaran, the other hand forms the Pleiades
Gemini: Two arms ending in the twins Castor and Pollux
Cancer: Hands to the heart as a crab
Leo: left hand cupped like lions head, right hand stretched out as tail (Denebola)
Virgo: single hand similar to shape of stars

The Sun: Jesus Christ

Libra: two hands together in balance
Scorpio: Peter as exact match to shape of scorpion with arm as body and sword as sting
Sagittarius: arms and hands closely match stars
Capricorn: two hands and head form triangle
Aquarius: arms and hands exact match to stars, with left arm stretched out
Pisces: arms and hands exact match to two lines of the fishes joined by knot at shoulder

Further allegorical discussion: http://wiki.astro.com/astrowiki/en/Leon ... ast_Supper

Quote:
Leonardo da Vinci's "The Last Supper" is considered to be one of the most important paintings in the history of art. A less well known fact is that Leonardo had intensively studied a variety of mystic and spiritual teachings and that the twelve apostles are a symbolic portrayal of the twelve signs of the zodiac.
The apostle on the far right of the painting is Simon who stands for Aries, the first sign of Aries. The distinctive head and dynamically gesturing hands pointing to his left clearly illustrate this fact.
Thaddeus, the apostle immediately to Simon's left, symbolises Taurus. The powerful "Taurean neck" coupled with his hands which he is pointing at his own physical body are a testament to this.
Next comes Matthew who represents the sign of Gemini. The head and hands point in different directions, symbolising the open and often sometimes indecisive energy of Gemini.
After Matthew comes Philip who stands for the sign of Cancer, symbolised by his gentle, soft and vulnerable appearance which is the most feminine of all the apostles.
Next comes James, son of Zebedee, who stands for the sign of Leo. He has an air of certainty which is indicated, among other things, by his confidently outstretched hands.
Barely noticeable behind James is doubting Thomas, symbol for the modest sign of Virgo. When Virgo does say something it tends to be in a critical or questioning manner, as illustrated by his raised index finger.
Continuing on the other side of Jesus we find John, his favourite apostle who unmistakably stands for the sign of Libra. His whole character expresses a longing for love and harmony.
He stands in stark contrast to Judas, betrayer of Jesus. His dark, grim expression stands for the energy of Scorpio, the sign of death and transformation.
The next apostle is Peter, the Sagittarian among the apostles. He appears to be dynamic and energetic, but in a rather chaotic sense and not as focused as Aries as symbolised by Simon.
Next to him sits Andrew, who represents the sign of Capricorn. He seems rather aloof but at the same time clear and decisive. His hands are raised in a gesture that clearly indicates where his own boundaries are which makes the most steadfast impression of all the apostles.
The next disciple to his left is James, son of Alphaeus, who is the Aquarian among the disciples. He has physical contact with both Andrew and Peter, symbolising the Aquarian ideal of contact with like-minded people.
The last apostle is Bartholomew, who represents Pisces, the sign that completes the zodiac. He seems to be observing the proceedings with an air of equanimity without really being involved. It is also an interesting to note that his are the only visible feet in the whole painting. Feet are associated with Pisces. In the middle of the painting sits Jesus, the Sun around which everything revolves.
The Last Supper is not the only example of deep esoteric symbolism in great works of art. It may not be presumptuous to state that only those with an understanding of astrology and other esoteric disciplines are in a position to truly appreciate great historic works of art.



Last edited by Robert Tulip on Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:57 am, edited 3 times in total.



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Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:39 am
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Post Re: The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper
Scriptural interpretation based on allegory is strongly frowned on because it leads to precisely this type of nonsense. When allegory is used, you can make the Bible mean anything one wants and when it can mean anyting one wants, it means nothing. My interpretation is as valid as yours which contradicts a third parties, etc., etc.


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Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:06 am
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Post Re: The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper
Stahrwe, you are as thick as two planks. Clearly you did not read my post with any attention but jumped to your usual preconceived idiot dogmatic slander. I should have posted this in the atheist forum. I hear you saying "Oh its different from my precious fossil Jesus fable so it must be nonsense." You have no morality whatsoever if you can think something so completely objectively wrong. Maybe your earlier claim to be blind is true (despite high scores on booktalk games)? You have obviously not been able to compare the hand positions in the painting to the star maps below them as I explain in simple language above.

Allegory does not allow a free for all. It proves here that Leonardo da Vinci encoded the zodiac in the Last Supper. If you can't see what someone is talking about it is the height of rudeness to dismiss it.

Apologies for feeding the troll.



Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:35 am
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Post Re: The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper
Robert Tulip wrote:
Stahrwe, you are as thick as two planks. Clearly you did not read my post with any attention but jumped to your usual preconceived idiot dogmatic slander.


To be slander what I say must:
Be false at the time I posted it.
I must know that it was false at the time I posted it.
I must have posted it with malicous intent.
And someone must be shown to have been damaged by it.

Since you don't cite the author, and since the url merely leads to an anonymous Wikipage, no person has been harmed. Is this reproduced from Murdock, TBK or Freethoughtnation.com?

Robert Tulip wrote:
I should have posted this in the atheist forum.


Had you done so I would have objected that it is did not belong there and should be under Belief, Religion, etc.

robert tulip wrote:
I hear you saying "Oh its different from my precious fossil Jesus fable so it must be nonsense."


Hallucinations do not only take the form of visual but, and the evidence is overwhelming that the most common form of hallucination is audible ergo, you hearing things when I am not there and I would not say. As proof that it is a hallucination I state that I have no idea what 'fossil Jesus fable' is.

robert tulip wrote:
You have no morality whatsoever if you can think something so completely objectively wrong.


I think you meant, 'something so completely objective' to which I respond that it is completely subjective. Is there anyting in LD's writings where he establishes the relation to the zodiac you report?

robert tulip wrote:
Maybe your earlier claim to be blind is true (despite high scores on booktalk games)?


Perhaps the force was with me. On the other hand, I never claimed to be blind did I?

Robert tulip wrote:
You have obviously not been able to compare the hand positions in the painting to the star maps below them as I explain in simple language above.


I did and got no correlation, whatsover.

robert tulip wrote:
Allegory does not allow a free for all. It proves here that Leonardo da Vinci encoded the zodiac in the Last Supper. If you can't see what someone is talking about it is the height of rudeness to dismiss it.


I see what you are talking about and it is not supported. One could come up with many different interpretations. Show us LD's explanation support you article and I will grant it to you.


robert tulip wrote:
Apologies for feeding the troll.


Who, or is it whom are you apologizing to?


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- G.K. Chesterton


Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:22 am
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Post Re: The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper
Robert Tulip wrote:
Maybe your earlier claim to be blind is true (despite high scores on booktalk games)?


What? Blind? What's that all about?


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Post Re: The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper
geo wrote:
Robert Tulip wrote:
Maybe your earlier claim to be blind is true (despite high scores on booktalk games)?


What? Blind? What's that all about?


I was trying to make a point about the defficiencies of using videos in place of text for discussion purposes.


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- G.K. Chesterton


Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:12 pm
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Post Re: The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper
stahrwe wrote:
no person has been harmed. Is this reproduced?


It is my original work. Your description of it as nonsense is a slander against me.

For the "Stahrwe is blind" discussion see his question "What would you say if I told you I was blind?" at post82953.html#p82953 followed by much nauseating disruption of an otherwise sensible thread as per the ongoing trolling agenda. However, that is off topic for this thread, and I request that if people want to talk about it they start a new thread.

I would welcome substantive comments and questions on the opening post.



Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:20 pm
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Post Re: The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper
Robert Tulip wrote:
stahrwe wrote:
no person has been harmed. Is this reproduced?


It is my original work. Your description of it as nonsense is a slander against me.


An opinion is not slanderous. It is called free speech and despite your efforts, it still exists at BookTalk.

Robert Tulip wrote:
For the "Stahrwe is blind" discussion see his question "What would you say if I told you I was blind?" at post82953.html#p82953


You need to be accurate and honest in your responses, another reason to include precise quotes, it limits wiggle room. For example see what you said in your response above.

My exact words were, "Where did I say I was blind?"

Your response is to include at link to my, 'what if,'. Perhaps in Australia, What if is a declaritive statement but hiere it is a question, not a claim.

robert tulip wrote:
I would welcome substantive comments and questions on the opening post.


OK, looking at the painting, the position of Jesus' hands, to me, more clearly represent a balance, therefore Libra than your suggestion. Don't you agree?


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“You cannot evade the issue of God, whether you talk about pigs or the binomial theory, you are still talking about Him. Now if Christianity be. . . a fragment of metaphysical nonsense invented by a few people, then, of course, defending it will simply mean talking that metaphysical nonsense over and over. But if Christianity should happen to be true – then defending it may mean talking about anything or everything. Things can be irrelevant to the proposition that Christianity is false, but nothing can be irrelevant to the proposition that Christianity is true.”
- G.K. Chesterton


Last edited by stahrwe on Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:46 pm
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Post Re: The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper
stahrwe wrote:
An opinion is not slanderous. It is called free speech and despite your efforts, it still exists at BookTalk.
When an opinion is false, baseless, reckless and derogatory it is slander. You are just lucky that Booktalk tolerates such conduct.
Quote:
You need to be accurate and honest in your responses, another reason to include precise quotes, it limits wiggle room. For example see what you said in your response above.
My exact words were, "Where did I say I was blind?"
You went on then after your post that I just linked to give the clear impression that you are blind by talking about use of reading software for the blind. That may be why everyone here is so full of tender compassion towards you. Your comments here compound the impression that you suffer from an intense lack of vision. I am sorry for you.

For those who are too blind to join the dots in the opening post I will provide more detailed drawings to show Leonardo must have used the zodiac as his template for the twelve apostles. This is the real Da Vinci Code. It shows Leonardo's secret continuity with the ancient tradition, cited in the main reputable Bible commentaries such as for example those of G.B. Caird and William Barclay (and I think Peake's), linking the Biblical use of the number twelve, for example the twelve jewels of the holy city, with both the twelve signs of the zodiac and the twelve tribes of Israel. Dogmatic bigots find this insufferable because they insist God is a purely supernatural superstition rather than an allegory for natural reality.



Last edited by Robert Tulip on Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Post Re: The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper
Robert Tulip wrote:
You are just lucky that Booktalk tolerates such conduct.


We have something in the United States called freedom of speech

Technically, written material would be libel and not slander except that my 'nonsense' reference was to a post and not to a person. A post cannot be slandered or libeled but a person can. Now, if I had referred to you as 'retarded', as some on BT have me, or if I compared you to a moronic cartoon character like Boofhead, that might constitute libel. Do you understand?

robert tulip wrote:
]You went on then after your post that I just linked to give the clear impression that you are blind by talking about use of reading software for the blind. That may be why everyone here is so full of tender compassion towards you. Your comments here compound the impression that you suffer from an intense lack of vision. I am sorry for you.
[/quote]

My suggestion of using aids was another hypothetical in response to an inquiry as to how a blind person would participate in discussions but not videos. Again, if you read the discussion I never said I was blind. Perhaps you are reading things into my statements just as you do DaVinci's works. You once stated that when you read an acient text, you try to determine what the text really means. That violates a cardinal rule of hermeneutics, that when plain sense makes sense, that is the only interpretation necessary.

I will say that I once was blind just as John Newton wrote, so in that case, what I said was accurate was it not?

robert tulip wrote:
This is the real Da Vinci Code. It shows Leonardo's secret continuity with the ancient tradition, cited in the main reputable Bible commentaries such as for example those of G.B. Caird and William Barclay (and I think Peake's), linking the Biblical use of the number twelve, for example the twelve jewels of the holy city, with both the twelve signs of the zodiac and the twelve tribes of Israel.
[/quote][/quote]

You mention Caird, Barclay and Peakes, how about citin the refeences in those works which show that the disciples represent the zodiac? Or, more to the point, how about showing it from the Bible?

BTW, I like the two to the right of Jesus in the picture for Gemini. The fact that you see two heads but only one body suggests twins to me, fraternal, perhaps conjoined, but twins.

Are you under the impression that the disciples are from each of the twelve tribes?


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- G.K. Chesterton


Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:46 am
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Post Re: The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper
From right to left in the painting of The Last Supper we see the twelve apostles are modelled on the shape of the stars of the twelve signs of the zodiac. The secret purpose is to encode in the greatest work of western art the ultimate truth that Christ is the Sun and the twelve apostles are the divisions of the year into twelve months. Here I focus in on the parts of the picture that match the stars, with each apostle shown to match his sign, much as the ancients put their mythical heros into the constellations.
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Post Re: The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper
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Last edited by Robert Tulip on Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:19 am, edited 2 times in total.



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Post Re: The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper
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Note: edited to correct labels



Last edited by Robert Tulip on Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:02 am, edited 2 times in total.



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Post Re: The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper
From right to left in the painting of The Last Supper we see the twelve apostles are modelled on the shape of the stars of the twelve signs of the zodiac. The secret purpose is to encode in the greatest work of western art the ultimate truth that Christ is the Sun and the twelve apostles are the divisions of the year into twelve months. Here I focus in on the parts of the picture that match the stars, with each apostle shown to match his sign, much as the ancients put their mythical heroes into the constellations.

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Post Re: The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper
Here is an email from a friend

Quote:
Hi Rob

I had a good look at the image and I think the physical geometry of the star maps fits very well indeed with the postures and arm positions of the figures in the painting. Particularly close matches are evident for Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Scorpio (what a beauty!!), Aquarius and Pisces....

I also read through your exchanges with The Blind One on booktalk.... Made me laugh outloud numerous times. Keep it up!



Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:21 am
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Oliver Twist - by Charles DickensSense and Goodness Without God - by Richard CarrierFrankenstein - by Mary ShelleyThe Big Questions - by Simon BlackburnScience Was Born of Christianity - by Stacy TrasancosThe Happiness Hypothesis - by Jonathan HaidtA Game of Thrones - by George R. R. MartinTempesta's Dream - by Vincent LoCocoWhy Nations Fail - by Daron Acemoglu and James RobinsonThe Drowning Girl - Caitlin R. KiernanThe Consolations of the Forest - by Sylvain TessonThe Complete Heretic's Guide to Western Religion: The Mormons - by David FitzgeraldA Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man - by James JoyceThe Divine Comedy - by Dante AlighieriThe Magic of Reality - by Richard DawkinsDubliners - by James JoyceMy Name Is Red - by Orhan PamukThe World Until Yesterday - by Jared DiamondThe Man Who Was Thursday - by by G. K. ChestertonThe Better Angels of Our Nature by Steven PinkerLord Jim by Joseph ConradThe Hobbit by J. R. R. TolkienThe Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas AdamsAtlas Shrugged by Ayn RandThinking, Fast and Slow - by Daniel KahnemanThe Righteous Mind - by Jonathan HaidtWorld War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War by Max BrooksMoby Dick: or, the Whale by Herman MelvilleA Visit from the Goon Squad by Jennifer EganLost Memory of Skin: A Novel by Russell BanksThe Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas S. KuhnHobbes: Leviathan by Thomas HobbesThe House of the Spirits - by Isabel AllendeArguably: Essays by Christopher HitchensThe Falls: A Novel (P.S.) by Joyce Carol OatesChrist in Egypt by D.M. MurdockThe Glass Bead Game: A Novel by Hermann HesseA Devil's Chaplain by Richard DawkinsThe Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph CampbellThe Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor DostoyevskyThe Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark TwainThe Moral Landscape by Sam HarrisThe Decameron by Giovanni BoccaccioThe Road by Cormac McCarthyThe Grand Design by Stephen HawkingThe Evolution of God by Robert WrightThe Tin Drum by Gunter GrassGood Omens by Neil GaimanPredictably Irrational by Dan ArielyThe Wind-Up Bird Chronicle: A Novel by Haruki MurakamiALONE: Orphaned on the Ocean by Richard Logan & Tere Duperrault FassbenderDon Quixote by Miguel De CervantesMusicophilia by Oliver SacksDiary of a Madman and Other Stories by Nikolai GogolThe Passion of the Western Mind by Richard TarnasThe Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le GuinThe Genius of the Beast by Howard BloomAlice's Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll Empire of Illusion by Chris HedgesThe Sound and the Fury by William Faulkner The Extended Phenotype by Richard DawkinsSmoke and Mirrors by Neil GaimanThe Selfish Gene by Richard DawkinsWhen Good Thinking Goes Bad by Todd C. RinioloHouse of Leaves by Mark Z. DanielewskiAmerican Gods: A Novel by Neil GaimanPrimates and Philosophers by Frans de WaalThe Enormous Room by E.E. CummingsThe Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar WildeGod Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything by Christopher HitchensThe Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco Dreams From My Father by Barack Obama Paradise Lost by John Milton Bad Money by Kevin PhillipsThe Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson BurnettGodless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists by Dan BarkerThe Things They Carried by Tim O'BrienThe Limits of Power by Andrew BacevichLolita by Vladimir NabokovOrlando by Virginia Woolf On Being Certain by Robert A. Burton50 reasons people give for believing in a god by Guy P. HarrisonWalden: Or, Life in the Woods by Henry David ThoreauExile and the Kingdom by Albert CamusOur Inner Ape by Frans de WaalYour Inner Fish by Neil ShubinNo Country for Old Men by Cormac McCarthyThe Age of American Unreason by Susan JacobyTen Theories of Human Nature by Leslie Stevenson & David HabermanHeart of Darkness by Joseph ConradThe Stuff of Thought by Stephen PinkerA Thousand Splendid Suns by Khaled HosseiniThe Lucifer Effect by Philip ZimbardoResponsibility and Judgment by Hannah ArendtInterventions by Noam ChomskyGodless in America by George A. RickerReligious Expression and the American Constitution by Franklyn S. HaimanDeep Economy by Phil McKibbenThe God Delusion by Richard DawkinsThe Third Chimpanzee by Jared DiamondThe Woman in the Dunes by Abe KoboEvolution vs. Creationism by Eugenie C. ScottThe Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael PollanI, Claudius by Robert GravesBreaking The Spell by Daniel C. DennettA Peace to End All Peace by David FromkinThe Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey NiffeneggerThe End of Faith by Sam HarrisEnder's Game by Orson Scott CardThe Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark HaddonValue and Virtue in a Godless Universe by Erik J. WielenbergThe March by E. L DoctorowThe Ethical Brain by Michael GazzanigaFreethinkers: A History of American Secularism by Susan JacobyCollapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared DiamondThe Battle for God by Karen ArmstrongThe Future of Life by Edward O. WilsonWhat is Good? by A. C. GraylingCivilization and Its Enemies by Lee HarrisPale Blue Dot by Carl SaganHow We Believe: Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God by Michael ShermerLooking for Spinoza by Antonio DamasioLies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them by Al FrankenThe Red Queen by Matt RidleyThe Blank Slate by Stephen PinkerUnweaving the Rainbow by Richard DawkinsAtheism: A Reader edited by S.T. JoshiGlobal Brain by Howard BloomThe Lucifer Principle by Howard BloomGuns, Germs and Steel by Jared DiamondThe Demon-Haunted World by Carl SaganBury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee BrownFuture Shock by Alvin Toffler

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