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The Secret Garden: Chapters 10, 11 and 12 
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Penelope wrote:
I was sent this link to read. It demonstrates very clearly how the class system operated and sometimes marred peoples lives.

http://www.vanityfair.com/style/feature ... erpt200902


"Tony was immediately besotted with his son, so much so that two months after David's birth he did not want to leave him and fly with his wife for their planned three-week winter holiday in Antigua. But as Margaret, who had been brought up largely by nannies and governesses, pointed out, provided little David got his bottle every four hours, he would not mind whether it was his mother or the new, very experienced nanny, Verona Sumner, who gave it to him. (Unlike the Queen, Margaret did not feed her children herself.) Sumner, an excellent nanny, was another who disliked Tony, mainly because he wanted too much to do with "her" baby."


No wonder Margaret turned out bad.



Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:29 pm
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Tom, why do you think she turned out bad?

I don't think it is for us to judge.

Here's a funny, courtesy of my son:-

Don't criticise a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes,
that way, you will be a mile away before he reacts, and you will have his shoes. :smile:


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Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:36 am
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Penelope wrote:
Tom, why do you think she turned out bad?

I don't think it is for us to judge.

Here's a funny, courtesy of my son:-

Don't criticise a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes,
that way, you will be a mile away before he reacts, and you will have his shoes. :smile:


Penelope, my understanding is that Margaret led a life of sensual indulgence and suffered the consequences in the destruction of her health. Am I wrong about this? I do not read about the misdeeds of British royality, but it seems to be a major industry in the UK. Anyway, what do people have children for if they don't want them around?

I'm going to take your son's advice and stay away from royalty and its American equivalents.

Tom



Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:53 am
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I don't know about our Royal Family either Tom. I don't read the gossip columns.

I know that Prince Charles seems a nice enough person, but we can't really know.

Someone on this forum has a wonderful tag which says:-

Quote:
Great Minds discuss ideas, Average Minds discuss situations and Small minds discuss people.


I don't know whose tag it is now, because I can't find it again, but it struck me as very apt.

It was I who posted that link......I'm sorry, it was crass of me to have done so.


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Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:49 am
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Penelope wrote:
It was I who posted that link......I'm sorry, it was crass of me to have done so.


Now let's don't judge ourselves harshly :)

You are never crass. Post all the links you want!

Tom

P.S. Isn't now Chat Time?



Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:13 am
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There is an old Yorkshire Dialect song, which has been running through my head this afternoon.

On Ilkley Moor Ba'aht 'At.

translates to 'On Ilkley Moor without your headgear'.

:(


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Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:08 pm
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Penelope wrote:
There is an old Yorkshire Dialect song, which has been running through my head this afternoon.

On Ilkley Moor Ba'aht 'At.

On Ilkla Moor Baht 'at (Standard English: On Ilkley Moor without a hat) is a popular folk song from Yorkshire, England. It is sung in the Yorkshire dialect, and is considered the unofficial anthem of the county.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Ilkla_Moor_Baht'at

. . . the song tells of a lover courting the object of his affections, Mary Jane, on Ilkley Moor without a hat (baht 'at). The singer chides the lover for his lack of headwear



Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:39 pm
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Penelope wrote:

Quote:
Someone on this forum has a wonderful tag which says:-

Quote:
Great Minds discuss ideas, Average Minds discuss situations and Small minds discuss people.


It was Farmgirlshelley who had that quote. (Does my noticing/saying that about her make me a small mind who discusses people? :hmm: )

About Margaret's not feeding her own baby and leading a life of sensual indulgence with consequences.... I am a big proponent of the merits of breastfeeding. Still, if one is going to lead a life of sensual indulgence with consequences, surely it is responsible and prudent to have someone else feed the baby? :hmm:

I love that quote about walking a mile in someone's shoes, Penelope. As you can see, it's just the way I think.


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Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:34 pm
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GentleReader9 wrote:
Penelope wrote:

Quote:
Great Minds discuss ideas, Average Minds discuss situations and Small minds discuss people.


Well-rounded minds discuss whatever the situation requires.

Quote:
I am a big proponent of the merits of breastfeeding.


Robert is too, and may advocate it as part of his profession. Babies in undeveloped countries sometimes die when polluted water is used in formula.



Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:29 pm
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Thomas
Quote:
Well-rounded minds discuss whatever the situation requires.



Thank you, Thomas, I was feeling a little small to average, but now I shall feel well-rounded. Ideas are mighty, but if that is all you can discuss then chances are you would have no close relationships.

Quote:
lI am a big proponent of the merits of breastfeeding


I couldn't agree more and not just because of babies dying from polluted water. No matter how good the formula it can never replace breastmilk, nor can bottle feeding ever replace the bond created by breastfeeding for both baby and mother.



Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:41 pm
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I thanked you, realiz, because we well-rounded breast-feeders have to stick together. :laugh:

But enough about the merits of natural nurturance. Back to The Secret Garden....

What is going on with the theme of the absent mother in this book? We have a pair of maternal twins who are ghosts (one killed swinging on a swing, of all things) and the other a neglectful party girl. Is play dangerous for grown-up women? Or at least for mothers and their children? Martha and her mother believe in play, as evidenced by the skipping rope they give Mary. But the most healthy activity for Mary turns out to be work in the garden, and in the care of others. Hmm. Very traditional women's roles....


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Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:34 pm
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GentleReader9 wrote:
Is play dangerous for grown-up women?


Poison oak? :)



Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:45 pm
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:laugh:

Touche' Thomas. (Or would I write "touche'e" since I am a woman? The apostrophe is supposed to be an accent aigu). For a man who claims not to actually be a spy, you seem to know too much.... :hmm: If you learn much more of my secret life, what must I do to procure your silence?


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Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:52 pm
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GentleReader9 wrote:
:laugh:

Touche' Thomas. (Or would I write "touche'e" since I am a woman?

touchee -- Feminine past participle of toucher.

Keeping secrets is such a burden. Mary couldn't help but expand her circle of those in on the secret.

Quote:
. . . what must I do to procure your silence?


Make me take the oath.

Tom



Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:28 pm
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Yes. So the question is, is the fencing expression "touche'" just a conventional word that stands on its own regardless of the gender of who says it or is it so close to its origin in the verb "toucher" (to touch) that it changes when the fencer acknowledging having felt the opponent's foil is a woman? People say it rather than writing it so one is hard pressed to tell.

The oath. Take the oath, Thomas, and get the syntax right.

Oaths, foils, secrets, I think we should read The Three Musketeers or something equally swashbuckling next! I actually did like that book....


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Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:42 pm
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