The Revenge of a Child

Dissident Heart · Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: The Revenge of a Child

Quote:
But, our support of Israel does not make the U.S. guilty of anything.

Whether it be the blocking of scores of UN Security Council Resolutions against Israel; the near blanket support of Israel by American politicians; the inordinate amount of foreign monetary aid in outright gifts, grants, loans with little or no interest, to be easily and often forgiven; the building and supplying of attack helicopters, aircraft, armored vehicles, weaponry, armaments; the supplying of engineering equipment, building supplies and machinery for the continued building of illegal settlements; the supplying of Caterpillar bulldozing equipment used to demolish entire homes, neighborhoods, and communities, as well as uproot olive groves that have existed for multiple generations of Palestinian families...the USA has an ABSOLUTELY crucial role in the survival of Israel and the devastation of Palestine.

If you are unwilling to admit this, then you are part of the problem.

Niall001

Macbro, I once lived with a devout Muslim. Care to explain why he didn't kill me?

Let us agree, there is no one single reality. Not upon this stage, not in this world, all is in the mind... imagination is the only truth. Because it cannot be contradicted except by other imaginations - Richard Matheson

There are no conclusive indications by which waking life can be distinguished from sleep - Rene Descartes

Chris OConnor

This thread has again reminded me of how no one person can have a monopoly on truth. I've been reading and participating in several of the recent discussions about God, Leviticus and other religious themes. I agree with some people and disagree with others.

My point here is that it is amazing how I can agree so much with a few of the newcomers on various political issues, but see things completely differently when it comes to religion.

The comment that Allah is Satan comes from ignorance. Not ignorance as in "you're a dumbass," but ignorance as in the Webster’s definition. The author of that statement probably really believes it. But he/she is wrong and ignorant of the basics of the two world religions involved. Probably because he or she is a Christian and brainwashed into feeling special.

Tiarella said something that deserves to be repeated:

Quote:
General comment to anyone posting in this thread - discussing the situation in Israel will stir very strong emotions. My plea: can we keep from embedding any name-calling/personal attacks and the like in our arguments? It's going to be hot enough as it is!

I'm going to bed and don't have the energy to make an intelligent post right now. Some would argue that I couldn’t make an intelligent post even when I’m wide-awake...but these people are clearly possessed by the devil.

Don't forget we have the Normal Bob Smith chat on Thursday. Talk about Satan! Jesus Christ this guy is hilarious. I'm only mentioning it here because some of you guys rarely check the home page.

Oh, and to the Christians that have recently arrived. You're welcome here. I'm serious. Please expect to have to defend your positions and to not be that popular, after all, we are the "freethinkers book discussion community." And its probably not such a good move to pick on the freethinker theme too much. Most members here are indeed freethinkers, quite intelligent, and obviously far more articulate than I be. Yes, I be was on purpose.

And if you think the Koran is evil you ought to see the Bible. Have you ever really read the Old Testament? Holy shit it’s filled with atrocious acts that should revolt you.

I hereby request the presence of all Christians in the Leviticus thread. Please pack a lunch.

XOXOXOX
Chris

"Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." - Nelson Mandella

Chris OConnor

21:9 The daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by playing the prostitute, she profanes her father: she shall be burned with fire.

Trust me...you do NOT want to meet God. One mistake or bad decision and he'll have you burned at the stake or stoned to death. Doubt me? Please do. Join the Leviticus thread and show me how I'm reading Gods book wrong.

God = Evil

Chris

"Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." - Nelson Mandella

Dissident Heart

I've made multiple attempts at Booktalk to provide scholarship, leaders, activists, every day folk from within Judaism, Christianity, and Islam who are working to seek peace, act justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with their God.

Part and parcel of this collection of informed voices is a commitment to self-critical analysis of the violence and abuses committed within each's own Religious tradition. What you will discover is a way to approach the evil within each tradition that works to stop the abuses, confess to the past, commit to a new future, and begin the long road of mending and healing the wounds committed by each Religious tradition.

Furthermore, you will discover voices that are genuinely committed to learning from other Religious traditions, seeking correctives to the limitations, blindness, and outright ignorances that we often shelter ourselves from.

Now, Chris' lifting up of the more vile elements of Leviticus neglects the truly radical components of the same book- the ones which demand profound economic justice and revolutionary social restructuring in the favor of the slave and indebted.

Likewise, Macbroo's highlighting of the militant exclusivism within the Quran neglects the many requirements to love, protect, honor, serve and provide hospitality to all persons, especially those who are strangers and not belonging to your kin.

I think both approaches are misguided, and purposefully avoid a careful reading of the text beyond their preconcieved disgust and prejudice.

I think Chris' higlighting of the abuses within Leviticus, in this context, are important because they point out the supreme danger and outright obtuseness of Macbroo's self-righteousness and claim to religious supremacy.

Dissident Heart

Well, I also happen to think that Macbroo's obtuse Religious supremacy is just another side of the same National chauvenism that I think you often exhibit on this board. You know, the kind that thinks the USA has the best form of politics, economics, way of life...should be transmitted across the planet, with force if necessary...the same kind of innocence that is always under attack by evil outside forces...a type of Nationalist Capitalist Economic missionary zeal that Macbroo captures so well in his fairly ugly vision of the God of the sojourn, peacemaker, and lover of the outsider, oppressed and crucified.

I should also add that this (the shared missionary zeal in his religious, your nationalist views) makes for a common political agenda which you can gree upon.

Furthermore, I don't think it is any mystery as to the missionary zeal of Corporate Capitalism and its accompanyting American Nationalism and Christian Fundamentalism that permeates the current Administration in the White House.

Edited by: Dissident Heart at: 10/26/04 1:53 pm

Chris OConnor

Dissident

Quote:
I think Chris' higlighting of the abuses within Leviticus, in this context, are important because they point out the supreme danger and outright obtuseness of Macbroo's self-righteousness and claim to religious supremacy.

Exactly, and this was my intention.

Do you think that Leviticus actually came from God?

Chris

"Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." - Nelson Mandella

Chris OConnor

Thanks Dissident.

I'm going to add this note to a few of the busy threads. We have a chat with Normal Bob Smith Thursday at 9pm eastern. No need to comment in this thread or respond. This is just a heads up for members.

Info can be found here.

Chris

"Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." - Nelson Mandella

macbroo

Quote:
Macbro, I once lived with a devout Muslim. Care to explain why he didn't kill me?

Yes, I would care to explain.

Your devout Muslim was a bad Muslim in allah's (satan's) eyes because good Muslims fight in allah's cause, which is to kill infidels and subjugate and enslave the world and force the conversion to Islam.

Quote:
Qur’an 4:95 “Not equal are those believers who sit at home and receive no injurious hurt, and those who strive hard, fighting Jihad in Allah’s Cause with their wealth and lives. Allah has granted a rank higher to those who strive hard, fighting Jihad with their wealth and bodies to those who sit. Unto each has Allah promised good, but He prefers Jihadists who strive hard and fight above those who sit home. He has distinguished his fighters with a huge reward.”

and

Quote:
Qur’an 8:73 “The infidels aid one another. Unless you do the same there will be anarchy in the land. Those who accepted Islam and left their homes to fight in Allah’s Cause are good Muslims.”

You better tell your devout Muslim cohabitant that he's not living up to allah's expectations and better get off the couch and into the holy war! Or at least he should ponder this:

Quote:
Qur’an 48:17 “There is no blame for the blind, nor is it a sin for the lame, nor on one ill if he joins not in the fighting. But he who retreats, (Allah) will punish him with a painful doom.”

Quote:
Qur’an 47:20 “Those who believe say, ‘How is it that no surah was sent down?’ But when a categorical surah is revealed, and fighting and war are ordained, you will see those with diseased hearts looking at you fainting unto death. Therefore woe unto them!”

Quote:
Qur’an 9:16 “Do you think you will get away before Allah knows who among you have striven hard and fought?”

Quote:
Qur’an 9:81 “Those who stayed behind rejoiced in their inaction behind the back of the Messenger. They hated to strive and fight with their goods and lives in the Cause of Allah. They said, ‘Go not forth in the heat.’ Say, ‘The fire of Hell is fiercer in heat.’ If only they could understand! So let them laugh a little, for they will weep much as a reward for what they did. If Allah brings you back to a party of the hypocrites and they ask to go out to fight, say: ‘You shall never go out to fight with me against a foe. You were content sitting inactive on the first occasion. So sit with the useless men who lag behind.’ Do not pray for any of them that die, nor stand at his grave. They rejected Allah and disbelieved His Messenger. They died in a state of perverse rebellion.”

If you find these scriptures disturbing, then you qualify as a disturbed reader.

If you cannot distinguish between allah and the God who sent Jesus to his death for our redemption, then you can't be thinking or using your God-given common sense.

You cannot excuse the actions of the jihadists as "rogue" or "screwed up" actions. They are performing perfectly as ordained by allah (satan) and their scriptures. Those who do not fight in allah's cause (jihad), such as your cohabitant, are destined to hell fires fiercer in heat (as above scripture clearly states) than regular hell fires, I guess!

:lol

Now I'm rulingfor the hatchling!

Edited by: macbroo at: 10/26/04 5:02 pm

Chris OConnor

macbroo

Do you really think the God of the Bible is more loving than Allah?

Numbers 15:32-36 :: New International Version (NIV)

32 While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day.
33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly,
34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him.
35 Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp."
36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses.

Please, macbroo, explain to me your true feelings on this matter. Do you agree that that man deserved to die? What do you think he was gathering wood for? Maybe he needed to light a fire to heat food and feed his wife and children? God commanded the people to throw rocks at this mans body until death. How do you feel about it? Was it right? Was it just? Do you think a loving God would really do such a thing? Or is it possible that human beings lied when writing this book and pretended a magical being made up such a rule and corresponding punishment?

Last, but not least, please explain to me how Allah is more like Satan than a God that commands people to murder a man for gathering wood. Please, please explain this.

Chris

"Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." - Nelson Mandella

Dissident Heart

Macbroo is able to hilight the crimes of his enemies, while living blissfully in denial of his own, in much the same way many American Nationalists simply cannot see the crimes committed thruought America's deadly and bloody history.

And, it's really no wonder that his Nationalism is just another shade of his Fundamentalism.

Thus, the Terrorists are always someone and somehwere else...never our side, our Nation, Armies, or our Religion.

Our side, imperfect as it is, stands fundamentally for truth, justice, morality, and God's way of life...any mistakes are the result of flawed humans interrupting an otherwise perfect flow of holy agency.

Their side, imperfect as it is, rests in the bowels of superstition and insane nihilism, wretched to the core and completely irredeemable- unwilling to accept our gracious gifts of freedom and liberty; they work to destroy the free world.

Whether it be Americans who won't take responsibility for the Terrorism they commit; or Christians who can't accept the Blood on their hands; or the Jews who feel Terror is justified for their protection; or the Muslims who adopt Terrorist methods to overthrow their enemies...the whole mess stinks like hell.

And, rest assured, or dont rest, these mix of ideas and actions will create a hell right here on earth.


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