Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 625
Thanks: 42 Thanked: 69 times in 54 posts
Gender:
Re: The Rattle Bag: The B poems
Good job, froglipz! Formatting is important, especially for e.e.cummings. Thanks, Giselle for taking on the C's. I'm away again in a two weeks for ten days, but if I'm back in time for the D's I'll take them.
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 722
Thanks: 58 Thanked: 123 times in 99 posts
Gender:
Re: The Rattle Bag: The B poems
Well, there's 28 "C" poems so this will take a while, probably into August. I liked the ee cummings poem, I like most of his writing. He captures meaning in novel ways and often, as in this poem, I think, hints that what is missing might be more important to the meaning than what is there.
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 3893 Location: Berryville, Virginia
Thanks: 689 Thanked: 562 times in 454 posts
Gender: Country:
Re: The Rattle Bag: The B poems
froglipz wrote:
Thanks giselle, although it was fun to do, it will be fun to watch also.
Buffalo Bill's
Code:
Buffalo Bill's defunct who used to ride a watersmooth-silver stallion and break onetwothreefourfive pigeonsjustlikethat Jesus he was a handsome man and what i want to know is how do you like your blueeyed boy Mister Death e e cummings
I hope the formatting holds... I think I figured out a way...
yes! That did it! Use the code instead of quote or just c/p ing it and you can hold the formatting of the poems that just refuse to be left justified...
All those times when I lamented the format not holding for me with the Top 500 poems...but you've gone and figured it out. Congrats! Of course, figuring it out is absolutely necessary for e e cummings' poems.
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 2638 Images: 5 Location: Round Hill, VA
Thanks: 270 Thanked: 215 times in 172 posts
Gender: Country:
Re: The Rattle Bag: The B poems
Penelope wrote:
Quote:
frog wrote:
I hope the formatting holds... I think I figured out a way...
yes! That did it! Use the code instead of quote or just c/p ing it and you can hold the formatting of the poems that just refuse to be left justified...
That's a poem in itself - that little piece of writing, frog.
Thanks giselle for taking on the C's.
Just brilliant, frog! I have been trying to figure that little puzzle out for some time. And also, a thank you to giselle from me too. I'll pick up the D's, unless D-Will would like too.
_________________ " How we eat determines, to a considerable extent, how the world is used." - Wendell Berry, What Are People For?
“People usually consider walking on water or in thin air a miracle. But I think the real miracle is not to walk either on water or in thin air, but to walk on earth. Every day we are engaged in a miracle which we don’t even recognize: a blue sky, white clouds, green leaves, the black, curious eyes of a child — our own two eyes. All is a miracle.” -Thich Nhat Hahn
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 625
Thanks: 42 Thanked: 69 times in 54 posts
Gender:
Re: The Rattle Bag: The B poems
Code:
i have found what you are like the rain,
(Who feathers frightened fields with the superior dust-of-sleep. wields
easily the pale club of the wind and swirled justly souls of flower strike
the air in utterable coolness
deeds of green thrilling light with thinned
newfragile yellows
lurch and.press
-in the woods which stutter and
sing
And the coolness of your smile is stirringofbirds between my arms;but i should rather than anything have(almost when hugeness will shut quietly)almost, your kiss ee cummings
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 503 Highscores:34 Thanks: 85 Thanked: 46 times in 39 posts
Gender: Country:
Re: The Rattle Bag: The B poems
OK the next two look like they will have to be typed in manually. The next one, The Buffalo Skinners is an old folk song, and I can find no less than thirty versions of it, none of them are the same, the one after is not anywhere on the internet (until now, that is) so I will have to tend to them after work tomorrow. For today I will go a little out of order and do the third one, which is also long so it should be enough for us to chew on until tomorrow late evening...
The Burglar Of Babylon
On the fair green hills of Rio There grows a fearful stain: The poor who come to Rio And can't go home again.
On the hills a million people, A million sparrows, nest, Like a confused migration That's had to light and rest,
Building its nests, or houses, Out of nothing at all, or air. You'd think a breath would end them, They perch so lightly there.
But they cling and spread like lichen, And people come and come. There's one hill called the Chicken, And one called Catacomb;
There's the hill of Kerosene, And the hill of Skeleton, The hill of Astonishment, And the hill of Babylon.
Micuçú was a burglar and killer, An enemy of society. He had escaped three times From the worst penitentiary.
They don't know how many he murdered (Though they say he never raped), And he wounded two policemen This last time he escaped.
They said, "He'll go to his auntie, Who raised him like a son. She has a little drink shop On the hill of Babylon."
He did go straight to his auntie, And he drank a final beer. He told her, "The soldiers are coming, And I've got to disappear."
"Ninety years they gave me. Who wants to live that long? I'll settle for ninety hours, On the hill of Babylon.
"Don't tell anyone you saw me. I'll run as long as I can. You were good to me, and I love you, But I'm a doomed man."
Going out, he met a mulata Carrying water on her head. "If you say you saw me, daughter, You're as good as dead."
There are caves up there, and hideouts, And an old fort, falling down. They used to watch for Frenchmen From the hill of Babylon.
Below him was the ocean. It reached far up the sky, Flat as a wall, and on it Were freighters passing by,
Or climbing the wall, and climbing Till each looked like a fly, And then fell over and vanished; And he knew he was going to die.
He could hear the goats baa-baa-ing. He could hear the babies cry; Fluttering kites strained upward; And he knew he was going to die.
A buzzard flapped so near him He could see its naked neck. He waved his arms and shouted, "Not yet, my son, not yet!"
An Army helicopter Came nosing around and in. He could see two men inside it, but they never spotted him.
The soldiers were all over, On all sides of the hill, And right against the skyline A row of them, small and still.
Children peeked out of windows, And men in the drink shop swore, And spat a little cachaça At the light cracks in the floor.
But the soldiers were nervous, even with tommy guns in hand, And one of them, in a panic, Shot the officer in command.
He hit him in three places; The other shots went wild. The soldier had hysterics And sobbed like a little child.
The dying man said, "Finish The job we came here for." he committed his soul to God And his sons to the Governor.
They ran and got a priest, And he died in hope of Heaven --A man from Pernambuco, The youngest of eleven.
They wanted to stop the search, but the Army said, "No, go on," So the soldiers swarmed again Up the hill of Babylon.
Rich people in apartments Watched through binoculars As long as the daylight lasted. And all night, under the stars,
Micuçú hid in the grasses Or sat in a little tree, Listening for sounds, and staring At the lighthouse out at sea.
And the lighthouse stared back at him, til finally it was dawn. He was soaked with dew, and hungry, On the hill of Babylon.
The yellow sun was ugly, Like a raw egg on a plate-- Slick from the sea. He cursed it, For he knew it sealed his fate.
He saw the long white beaches And people going to swim, With towels and beach umbrellas, But the soldiers were after him.
Far, far below, the people Were little colored spots, And the heads of those in swimming Were floating coconuts.
He heard the peanut vendor Go peep-peep on his whistle, And the man that sells umbrellas Swinging his watchman's rattle.
Women with market baskets Stood on the corners and talked, Then went on their way to market, Gazing up as they walked.
The rich with their binoculars Were back again, and many Were standing on the rooftops, Among TV antennae.
It was early, eight or eight-thirty. He saw a soldier climb, Looking right at him. He fired, And missed for the last time.
He could hear the soldier panting, Though he never got very near. Micuçú dashed for shelter. But he got it, behind the ear.
He heard the babies crying Far, far away in his head, And the mongrels barking and barking. Then Micuçú was dead.
He had a Taurus revolver, And just the clothes he had on, With two contos in the pockets, On the hill of Babylon.
The police and the populace Heaved a sigh of relief, But behind the counter his auntie Wiped her eyes in grief.
"We have always been respected. My shop is honest and clean. I loved him, but from a baby Micuçú was mean.
"We have always been respected. His sister has a job. Both of us gave him money. Why did he have to rob?
"I raised him to be honest, Even here, in Babylon slum." The customers had another, Looking serious and glum.
But one of them said to another, When he got outside the door, "He wasn't much of a burglar, He got caught six times--or more."
This morning the little soldiers are on Babylon hill again; Their gun barrels and helmets Shine in a gentle rain.
Micuçú is buried already. They're after another two, But they say they aren't as dangerous As the poor Micuçú.
On the green hills of Rio There grows a fearful stain: The poor who come to Rio And can't go home again.
There's the hill of Kerosene, And the hill of the Skeleton, The hill of Astonishment, And the hill of Babylon. Elizabeth Bishop
_________________ ~froglipz~
"I'm not insane, my mother had me tested"
Si vis pacem, para bellum: If you wish for peace, prepare for war.
Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 10
Thanks: 6 Thanked: 5 times in 4 posts
Gender: Country:
Re: The Rattle Bag: The B poems
Here is an informative link that may help with appreciation of this poem. I hope to be back soon with time to comment. http://www.cercles.com/n12/nesme.pdf
_________________ DireCari
Then she said, "Choose thee, gentle Gawaine, Truth as I doe say, Wether thou wilt have me in this liknesse In the night or else in the day." --The Marriage Of Sir Gawain
The following user would like to thank DireCari for this post: froglipz
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 2638 Images: 5 Location: Round Hill, VA
Thanks: 270 Thanked: 215 times in 172 posts
Gender: Country:
Re: The Rattle Bag: The B poems
Just gotta say, I do so enjoy e.e. cummings.
_________________ " How we eat determines, to a considerable extent, how the world is used." - Wendell Berry, What Are People For?
“People usually consider walking on water or in thin air a miracle. But I think the real miracle is not to walk either on water or in thin air, but to walk on earth. Every day we are engaged in a miracle which we don’t even recognize: a blue sky, white clouds, green leaves, the black, curious eyes of a child — our own two eyes. All is a miracle.” -Thich Nhat Hahn
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 722
Thanks: 58 Thanked: 123 times in 99 posts
Gender:
Re: The Rattle Bag: The B poems
Saffron, I gotta say, me too, I never tire of ee cummings. He certainly has a way of putting things.
So Micucu, the Burglar of Babylon, the making of a folk hero or a sad ballad of a common criminal who got what he deserved in the end? The ballad seems so appropriate as a means to create folk heroes or to celebrate them. I really like a good ballad set to song, especially a good Bob Dylan ballad.
Last edited by giselle on Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 10
Thanks: 6 Thanked: 5 times in 4 posts
Gender: Country:
Re: The Rattle Bag: The B poems
Quote:
So Micucu, the Burglar of Babylon, the making of a folk hero or a sad ballad of a common criminal who got what he deserved in the end?
Another reading might be that of a tragedy fueled by poverty and injustice.
I found Axel Nesme's essay persuasive on a number of points. (See the link in my reply, above.) Nesme urges that one of the integral steps to reading the poem (beyond reader response) may be to see the establishment of separate points of view.
In this case, we can identify a narrator, an audience (including the rich people of Rio watching through their binoculars) Micuçu, himself, and the reader. According to Nesme, Bishop's goal is to align the reader's view with her own--or to cause us to "see as she sees."
One of her techniques is to establish disparate views, and then to merge them into one.
Nesme argues that the idea of Micuçu as a murderer is undercut by the line "They don't know how many he murdered / (Though they say he never raped)." If you can't actually quantify these supposed acts, maybe the number is zero. I would add that the poet weighs in by entitling the work the Burglar--rather than the murderer--of Babylon.
So, the label of "killer" is brought into doubt. Was he ever found gulity of murder? Or is this just something "they" attribute--perhaps even project onto--him. If a reader isn't prepared to embrace the falibility of legal systems, and the tendency to criminalize the poor, this may not be as evident, but it is entirely in keeping with Bishop's politics.
Farther on we are told that "he wasn't much of a burglar." The nonfatal injuries that he caused in the process of escape could be seen as accidental, or--depending on how one's ideology leans--even self-defensive. The cumulative effect may leave Micuçu somewhat short of Jean Valjean but pulls him away from the likes of Jack the Ripper. He's a bit of a rough character, but perhaps not beyond the bounds of human compassion.
In any event, Bishop is sympathetic to her subject, further humanizing him as a loving family member. He achieves a level of nobility in his preference for brief liberty, albeit at the price of death, over long years of imprisonment. His awareness of his doom, his meditations on the hill, his game rebuke of the buzzard are all elements that can allow the reader to root for Micuçu, in spite of the official state view of him.
I won't belabor this response with too much detail, but there is a sinuous satirical refrain running through these stanzas which mocks church, state and social class (both the voyeuristic rich and the failed consciousness of some poor). Bishop wants us to feel the plight of the poor, and the broken nature of the social contract. That Micuçu looks out for the military police pursuing him from the same hillside used in the past to watch for the invading French, alludes to the theme of class warfare.
All deaths in the narrative occur at the hands of the military, and we see that the soldiers are out again, the next day, hunting more--and even "less dangerous"--quarry.
I appreciated Nesme's essay for pointing out how Bishop moves from the distance of simile to the integration of metaphor in her effort for unification of view, and for apprising me of the fact that Micuçu means snake, which fuels Bishop's inversion of the traditional symbolic use of that creature as the free but doomed refugee "hid in the grasses / or sat in a little tree." I also appreciated his insight into Bishop's application of Lacan's psycho-linguistic philosophies. These layers aren't entirely necessary to an appreciation of the poem, but I found them agreeable, all the same.
I do enjoy language that reaches off the page and "does things" to the reader. Although our audacious editors are rascals in asserting that being selected for this anthology (by their own rarified hands) is the only commendation these poems require, I'm guessing they like that, too.
On the other hand, I wonder if the poem is effective with readers who are not already open to Bishop's point of view.
Both Heaney and Hughes are cut from close cloth, in the matter of poetic style. Both grew under the influence of Philip Hobsbaum and favor a descriptive poetic aesthetic (indeed, Heaney's worst critics consider him "merely descriptive.") Bishop's ballad is an effective (slightly embellished) retelling of a situation she personally observed, which fits the bill. Heaney is on record as approving of her ability to keep her artistic efforts from interfereing with the "hard realities" of her subjects.
There are plentiful portions of artistry and hard reality in The Burglar of Babylon. The "fearful stain" on "the green hills of Rio" strikes me at once as the attitude of the wealthier residents toward the poor, an indictment of the then-prevailing social ideology, and the blood oozing from Micuçu's head.
I enjoyed this poem, which was new to me, though I don't know that it would make a list of my all-time favorites. But then, I suppose that would depend on how thick a book I was compiling.
_________________ DireCari
Then she said, "Choose thee, gentle Gawaine, Truth as I doe say, Wether thou wilt have me in this liknesse In the night or else in the day." --The Marriage Of Sir Gawain
Last edited by DireCari on Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
The following user would like to thank DireCari for this post: froglipz
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 503 Highscores:34 Thanks: 85 Thanked: 46 times in 39 posts
Gender: Country:
Re: The Rattle Bag: The B poems
Wow, thanks DireCari for both the link to the essay and your own essay on The Burglar of Babylon. It is interesting how Elizabeth Bishop tries to win us over to her own point of view.
_________________ ~froglipz~
"I'm not insane, my mother had me tested"
Si vis pacem, para bellum: If you wish for peace, prepare for war.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
Love to talk about books but don't have time for our book discussion forums? For casual book talk join us on Facebook.
Support BookTalk.org
BookTalk.org is being upgraded to a totally new design. This upgrade is expensive. Any support would be VERY helpful! See who supports us.
Make a donation
PEOPLE PAYING FOR OUR UPGRADE:
• afv - $10 May
• LevV - $50 March
• Dexter - $10 March
• supernova38 - $25 March
• Oblivion - $20 March
• jheimlich - $20 February
• Robert Tulip - $50 February
• giselle - $50 January
Children here need worming
regularly, and I think I
need to buy more worming
tablets, so while my friends
sit on the beach, I have to
catch bush taxis up to the… more
The children have a long way
to walk to the nearest primary
school. At the moment they are
in temporary accommodation,
with volunteer teachers. There
is community land available,
a… more
The price of The 12th Disciple
has been updated to $3.99 for
Kindle readers. The book is
still available for free to
borrow for Amazon Prime
members. To be
competitive, and s… more
The 12th Disciple has been
reviewed by two different
people on Amazon. They
purchased the Kindle edition;
one in the US, one in the
UK. One review was
5-stars (US) and the oth… more
I'd like to say I've
been reading Harry Potter
since the day the world renown
series appeared on the
scene. Unfortunately,
the truth is I began reading
Harry Potter… more
Easter teaches many of us the
importance of redemption and
resurrection. Regardless of
what faith people follow, the
story of Jesus Christ has been
told in many languages in many
c… more
Our Book Talk will begin on
Wednesday, May 2nd. I look
forward to hearing about your
learning and classroom
experiences with Number Talks
as it all unfolds...
NONOPPOSITIONAL NONVIOLENCE
The minute you conquer the
fear of death, at that moment
you are free. I submit to you
that if a man hasnt
discovered something that he
will die f… more
Yesterday, when I went to feed
Jeni the donkey, I noticed
swarms of bees entering
Ebrimas house through the
cracks in the door. We both
had a look, but he didnt
open his door… more
Whether you want to implement
number talks but are unsure of
how to begin or have
experience but want more
guidance in crafting
purposeful problems, this
dynamic multimedia resourc… more
Do you feel entitled? For
years I have listened to and,
in some instances, complained
that some people in America
feel entitled. For years I
have watched as these people
are portra… more
On Fat Tuesday and Ash
Wednesday of 2012, The 12th
Disciple was free to Kindle
users on both days. In all,
about 550 worldwide Kindle
users downloaded a copy of the
book.
Sacred Are the Brave a
collection of short stories
about the nonviolent
revolutions 1986-1989 is now
available in Kindle. Each of
the nine stories has
characters who are just
… more
The Weekend Trippers is the
true story of Rfn Ted Taylor
and his part in the heroic
last stand in Calais May 1940.
The Weekend Trippers is based
on Teds diaries written at
the… more
Tell your friends when to meet you in the BookTalk.org Chat Room.
If you enjoy business bestsellers and would like to expand your business knowledge check out the quality book summaries offered by the world's leading book summary company.
BookTalk.org is a free book discussion group or online reading group or book club. We read and talk about both fiction and non-fiction books as a group. We host live author chats where booktalk members can interact with and interview authors. We give away free books to our members in book giveaway contests. Our booktalks are open to everybody who enjoys talking about books. Our book forums include book reviews, author interviews and book resources for readers and book lovers. Discussing books is our passion. We're a literature forum, or reading forum. Register a free book club account today! Suggest nonfiction and fiction books. Authors and publishers are welcome to advertise their books or ask for an author chat or author interview.