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Penelope 
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 Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject:
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Oh, OK Tarav, I'm talking to you on two different threads here!!
I have told you on another thread to tidy up.....meaning tidy up your ideas....but I think I should take my own advice....and tidy up my own ideas.... 
Oooh, don't you hate it when that happens!!!  |
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Chris OConnor
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:34 am Post subject:
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Personal beliefs can and should be challenged.
We're all conditioned to back away from confronting other peoples beliefs. Beliefs are sacred no matter how silly and irrational they may be. If you read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins you know that this is the main thrust of the book.
I say rip apart beliefs till the adherent is standing there naked, exposed and shivering. No belief is sacred...other than the belief that no belief is sacred. If a belief is founded on evidence and reason the adherent has nothing to fear.
Lawrence, some beliefs can be rejected outright. When a person claims to believe something that is logically impossible it would be irrational to NOT disbelieve the claim. To throw your hands up in the air and say, "Well, you just never know," is intellectual cowardice and plain silly.
What if Billy Bob Jenkins says to you that he saw an 1100 foot diameter levitating pumpkin behind his double-wide trailer last night. Should you give him the benefit of the doubt? Hey, you weren't there so how do you know what Billy Bob saw?
Some beliefs are ridiculous and don't deserve intellectual immunity. Yes, this is a new term I just created. |
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Lawrence
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:46 am Post subject: beliefs
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Thanks Chris for involving me in this thread.
I believe you err in your logic because you are arguing inside the eggshell of dogma. I see your argument to be no more than "my belief is better than your belief." The presumption within the eggshell is that a belief in an unprovable concept can be, or is believed to be, true. You are saying the silliness of beliefs in god because they can not be proven true and I am saying your argument is also silly. It is silly to argue about the truths of beliefs in an infinite power because the answer is there is no answer.
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| Beliefs are sacred no matter how silly and irrational they may be. |
I believe you err again. Beliefs are sacred only if you believe the belief is authorized by an infinite sourse. Beliefs, then, can only be sacred to the person who believes in the god (s) who authorized them.
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say rip apart beliefs till the adherent is standing there naked, exposed and shivering. No belief is sacred...other than the belief that no belief is sacred. If a belief is founded on evidence and reason the adherent has nothing to fear.
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Well, hooray for your enthusiasm Chris. It shows you are a young man. I gave up trying to cure the world of stupidity and it is not my job to fix ignorance. But by jousting at your windmills inside the eggshell you are falling into the trap which you are so vigorously opposing. Your solution is what tyrants do and have always done. Use force to impose their beliefs on others.
When I see a person playing with matches around spilled gasoline I move as far away from them as fast as I can. Likewise, when I see or hear a belief that is psychotic or neurotic, unless I have accepted the job of helping that person, I move away from them as fast as I can. To me they are crazy and I've never seen any good come from crazies. For the most part, without extreme psychiatric intervention and counseling nothing is going to change for them. The best line in Sam Harris's book Letter to the Christian Nation is "if anyone believed in anything else the way they believe in god they would be considered deliusional." I agree with him. That's why I leave those people alone.
The itch I believe you are trying to scratch is the public promotion of those beliefs by leaders of those religions and the use of government laws to force those deliusions on you, me, and others who choose not to believe in their dogma.
Knowing how you feel about this topic and knowing you know how I feel about this topic, it is a testimony to your academic maturity that you not only tolerate my views but encourage me to continue my work. Thanks, L |
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