Again - there is a mass misconception of what the infinte is. Anything defined is finite. The infinite can not be known. Hence it can't belong to the finite world. You are coming from a finite viewpoint and think it is possible to define the infinite. It is not possible. The infinite has no size. It can't be defined. Look at the word Infinite. The word finite is withing the infinite. We are in the finite trying to understand the infinite, but beyond the borders of the finite world we move from logoc to magic. You can't use explainaiton form within the finite to explain the infinite. You can't use dictionary terms to define the infinite. It can't be defined - period.

"You can't stand under what you don't understand" - Steve Berg

Few people get this because we rely on current science to tell us the truth and what the world is lilke. Science is way behind. They are somewhat catching up like finally seeing that our world is nothing but a hologram through their Holographic Principle Theory. Prod. Leonard Susskind, Brian Greene and others talk about how our wolrd very well can be a hologram. This has been channeled for ages so they are playing catch up.

Why hasn't science discovered this until now? It was't time. All in due time. We are moving along a sprial from forgetting to re-membering and some remembers more than others.

Am I being arrogant saying this?

I don't think so. I didn't know this myself 10 months ago and I have been a spiritual seeker 24/7 for many years. Steve Berg and his incredible experience just blew my mind. He has experienced the creation in slow motion and it makes so much sense when you see how God is the infinite potenial that "creates" the finite world to experience Himself - to manifest the unmanfested - to create a game where God is not alone.

We must re-member that there is only ONE OF US HERE. I am now basically talking to myself. I am not Camillo. Camillo is the character I play. You are not the person you think you are.

Those who wake up start to re-mind others. We move along a spiral and everything speeds up. Some characters are more awake than others.

And there is nothing vague about what I am saying. Not with regards to the definition of God or about the infinite.

All boils down to which character you play, what level of consciosuness you are at and when you are ready to see the bigger picrure.

All in due time. You must play you character no matter what that is. Maybe you are suppose to play a character who always question everything and I admire that. Each character is equally important. You play your character and I play mine. This is how it is suppose to be.

We are moving along a spiral and more characters will wake up.

Keep up your good work. Play your character to the fullest. And question everything. This is your task. Wether it is to question the definition of God or the infinite.

take care - all the best, Camillo

I think that one of the biggest problems in the world today in general, is that of people huddling under other people’s umbrellas of understanding. Like that the world used to be flat but then whose umbrella of understanding was that? Who was the one who travelled to the end of the flat world and looked over the edge? And so everyone was metaphorically wet. Fools for not checking/thinking for themselves.
Hawking states that there was no need for God in creation, (which was an answer to something that Albert Einstein said), he states that it spontaneously, no cause, no reason... it spontaneously exploded into existence out of nothing?
Let me loose then the inner child, Hawking is a buck naked Emperor, Hey presto, piff paff puff and a big bang is in no way a scientific theory! In my opinion he should be taken to task over that outrageous statement. If you are going to kill God then at least formulate a logical theory. But then everyone looks at each other and shrugs their shoulders, ‘Hawking must be right because ‘they’ say he is’. They suspend logic! Nothing can come from nothing, fact!
Mr Loken however explains logically why the big bang occurs and reoccurs. Okay it’s not an easy concept to get your head around, you have to work at it, read over a few times, but then I don’t think you are ever going to understand the thus far illusive ‘meaning of life’ via a free four page booklet found in a MacDonald’s happy meal.

You can’t argue with logic.

Infinity for Dummies:

Infinity is really big!

Oh really, how big? Big is a quantification, a size, are you saying that infinity has a defined size, and if you are then what is beyond that defined size, baring in mind that the universe or cosmos (as the stock example/question of the infinite) is supposed to be ALL!

Infinity is ever expanding! (And yet it is all? duhhhhh)

Ooooookay........expanding to where?

Also, expansion is a fluid size, with a moving event horizon/boundary, likened to balloons. And even if the universe were expanding, at any one moment it will always be a mere minuscule fraction of what it will become.

(Aha, you started a sentence with And, ahaha everything you said is now void...where is my anorak? hmmm hmmm I like tin fruit it''s much cleaner....lol)

Anything manifest cannot be infinite as it will be either one of the two above, sized or expanding, there will always be more. You can’t know the infinite as to know is quantify, in this case view or imagine, and yet you can’t view/imagine it as that is indeed the quantification, the sizing. Anything that has a size is bound and therefore there will other than it, beyond the bound-ary. So it can’t be All.

So…..anything known? How hard is that to understand….

When you ask someone to explain how the universe can be infinite the insanity and denial floods out. If the universe was unending, then how come it has a beginning? Which is an end in the other direction, a point beyond which there is nothing...

Anyone who tries to say that the universe is infinite, disregarding logic agreeing with the unsubstantiated party line, is doing so for only one reason. They want to explain creation and they want to leave out God in that explanation, and they want to do that because they have something to hide. They are mostly money worshipers trying to justify themselves. ‘Yeah but everyone else is doing it!’ Would you put your head in the proverbial oven if they all do? Obviously yes!

Assuming that God is real, then when God is revealed the world will be seen to be a crime against that God ethos.

You can argue with me, but not with God. You can argue against logic, yeah one plus one is four thousand and it’s okay for people to starve to death on a planet that has enough to feed all.
‘But it’s the way of the world!’ Sure it is!!! The planet even without people on it, ‘the world’ is greedy, complacent and it lies and kills.

Bobby, you seemed to have had some point in mind, but you come across so indignant sounding that it's all a wash. Who are you even ranting at? I would think you're directing some of that at me, due to the part on infinity. But "Infinity is expanding"... Are you the real Deepak? Maybe you need to read 'infinity for dummies' again. Infinity doesn't expand. If you continue counting past infinity, then it is the number line that will expand. If the arrow of time behind us is infinite, then time is expanding.

Bobby wrote:They suspend logic! ... You can’t argue with logic. ... You can argue against logic,

Notice the contradictory sentences? The word that fits is "reason", not logic. Logic is something different than what you're referring to. It is structured reasoning, not "anything goes".

Bobby wrote:Anything manifest cannot be infinite as it will be either one of the two above, sized or expanding, there will always be more. You can’t know the infinite as to know is quantify, in this case view or imagine, and yet you can’t view/imagine it as that is indeed the quantification, the sizing.

Who said you need to quantify the boundaries of something to know it? That exact conundrum is why infinity has been so useful in mathematics. It allows us to understand and work with unbounded arrays. You're making stuff up Bobby.

Again - there is a mass misconception of what the infinte is. Anything defined is finite. The infinite can not be known.

The flip side to this mass misconception is that only one person is wrong - you. You cannot redefine words just so that they mean what you want them to mean, so that they dovetail nicely into your vigilante philosophy. There are plenty of things which we have defined, yet are infinite. We cannot ever have full understanding of these things, since our brains are finite. But we can and do define them, and work with them.

All boils down to which character you play, what level of consciosuness you are at and when you are ready to see the bigger picrure.

I think the mass misconception is that fuzzy language and word-abuse is the cloak that hides what you call a 'higher level of consciousness'. The issue is not with higher consciousness. It's with understanding.

Camillo Loken wrote:it´s time to dis-cover and re-member that you really are God in Disguise.

Hi Camillo, thanks for sharing your book The Paradox of Creation, which I see you say was ‘Amazon #1’ (on launch day in category New Age Mysticism).

New Age Mysticism is a fairly difficult topic, what with the controversial issues around the Age of Aquarius and so on. Many writers in this field have a somewhat tenuous grasp on normal standards of proof and evidence. But good on you for taking it on. I am personally quite interested in how ideas of a New Age can be justified against normal standards of logic and credibility.

Your terms ‘dis-cover and re-member’ are interesting. The old Greek word for truth was aletheia, or unhiddenness – bringing something out from hiding, uncovering it, or dis-covering. And re-member is like how Isis ‘re-membered’ Osiris by making a clay penis for him when she couldn’t find his real one after Set hid it in the Nile River and it got eaten by a fish. The ‘re-membered’ organ was the basis for Isis to be impregnated to give birth to Horus, while not detracting in any way from her perpetual virginity. Re-membering is an ambiguous idea.

Camillo Loken wrote:Creation is a paradox and the set-up has been hidden from us as it had to be.

Unfortunately that looks like a deliberately obscure statement, employing word salad. Creation is not a paradox. Creation is a very obscure term for a start, since like ‘creature’ it implies the existence of a creator. That is fine for finite human creations, but not for cosmology.

The “paradoxes” you describe are between what you claim is actually real and what merely appears to be real. One illustration of simple paradox is that a stick in water looks bent even though it is actually straight. This paradox is readily explained by the fact that light rays are refracted by water. The paradox is only apparent. Appearance and reality are reconciled by science, not by magic.

Camillo Loken wrote:This book will
- reveal to you The Paradox of Creation
- show you how un-manifested, unlimited, infinite potential of consciousness is manifesting and facilitating itself through you in order to BE

Consciousness does not have ‘infinite potential’. As far as we know, consciousness is restricted to finite entities with finite potential. Even so, that is wonderful poetry. Please just don’t start believing your own bullshit.

Camillo Loken wrote: - show you how the subconscious mind is a vital part for the character you play in the game of life

Good, I assume that means Jungian archetypes expressed in symbol and ritual?

Camillo Loken wrote: - show you how time is not linear, but part of a grand cycle

This is one I have puzzled over. Time is both linear and cyclic. We get older with linear time as we cycle through the days and seasons. There is a neglect of cyclic patterns in mainstream science, but the scepticism is mainly justified because extravagant astrological claims are often made about cycles.

Camillo Loken wrote: - explain how the game of life is set up and how you can benefit from knowing the rules

Sounds good. I just hope the ‘rules’ are compatible with the laws of physics.

The paradox is simple. Consciousness has to be supported by time-space as it's a feed back loop of re-cognised thought, and that's a fact not an opinion. Consciousness can't feed back without juxtaposition and yet the infinite state is un-recognisable due to everything being in the same non-place. And yes words and descriptives thus far don't adequately describe what Mr Loken is attempting to relay, you have to retain all he is saying whilst being aware of why there seems to be contradictions, he is describing a contradiction, a paradox....like duhhh.
Very simply, the infinite (Unmanifestable) and finite (time-space) oppose each other and that produces cycles in the finite, that's easy to understand, new, but simple. The paradox is driving endlessly recurring cycles just like a commutator drives an electric motor, it's that simple.
Word salad is for anoraks, when he says infinite potential he means many possibilities, a term of phrase, of course he doesn't think that the finite realm is infinite, he states that loads of times.
Everyone is being civil on this site, but it doesn't hide the fact that you either understand the first positive spiritual concept that is not mystical, it's very logical. Something that has the power to unite people of both the spiritual and scientific communities, and at a time when we really need to unite as the infighting on the planet is getting out of hand, the economy is failing due to the fight that is greed, children fighting over toys in the sand box. Or you don't.
So you can be picky over language salad and score points, or you can open your heart and mind, which will naturally happen at this time or not, a time to choose no less. You could have pointed out what you didn't understand and waited for a reply but then you just jumped at an opportunity to poo poo a new opportunity for life in the womb. And as you are a picky, I don't mean that anyone is pregnant, it was a metaphor. And make no mistake, this is a battle brewing. Many now are demanding truth, a better way to live that works, and due to ego we need a common understanding in order to unite us. So.........if Mr Loken can't do that, where's your book? Come on say something new and inspired....
I say that there will be a evolution, and in case you start picking, no it's a revolution, cycles, forgive my word cucumber. So where will you stand? And that revolution won't be about words, it will be about emerging truth and an attempt to kill it. Let's be clear, I'm saying that the Messiah is on his way, and I say that because of a very logical sequence of events, I'm not religious. So yeah it's a bet. I bet on God and revelation, no need to argue, time will tell. Let's be even clearer: Something is coming that will divide the world, and that is a war. 'Yeah but God is love and you are angry'. Anger is a natural reaction to injustice and God being only love is an unsupported cliché, look around the world and tell me that God is love and not something more that most don't understand, 'Why do bad things happen yada yada?'. If Mr Loken is correct then this world is simply part of a cycle, the work pay-in part that lends appreciation, which makes sense when all the flakes keep chanting love in a war torn exploitative world.
We could argue for years and we would, as man has, so we need the hammer to come down as this argument now has the potential to destroy the planet. And then we, consciousness, will need a new home, hence Armageddon. That's my truth, other peoples truth and we will defend it, wanna fight?

How can you even justify a fight against unity and equality? The arguments always bring up the financial aspect, which speaks volumes.

Some guy even had the audacity to pedantically pick apart one of my statements calling me Bobby, when I used the name 'Booky' Bookerton. So, how closely did he read my post? And no my name is not Bobby, it's Steve Berg and I am your worst nightmare. A down to Earth working guy who hates liars and cheats and saw God and can prove it (Don't ask me to on this site, it's obviously not the correct format, besides, there's only one proof of any consequence, the revelation that's on it's way.)

Don't tell me I'm confrontational, state the obvious, you have no idea how confrontational I am.

These are the years when this ever brewing confrontation will be resolved, people will no longer stand for this BS exploitation over money/power. Turn on you tv and tell me that I am wrong, no matter what heading they are rebelling under, it's all about injustice and exploitation which is a crime against freedom. I am a part of God not someone's wage slave.

'But this will cause violence.' So tell the money worshipers to back off.....simple. If they don't let go then the future is set. (Yes the future is set anyhow, another turn of phrase.)

'Oh but Jesus said that we should love each other and forgive'. ('Wonderful race the Romans, I dreamed of being spat on'.) Or was the U-turn in the new testament, that was written by the Pharisee Saul, who changed his name to Paul, did he create the U-turn of an eye for eye bible in order to quell a revelation/revolution, seeing as Rome also adopted an ethos that opposed their capitalist Baal ambition? I say the real Jesus was no a pussy!

Power to the People!!!!! Bergy

And yes words and descriptives thus far don't adequately describe what Mr Loken is attempting to relay, you have to retain all he is saying whilst being aware of why there seems to be contradictions, he is describing a contradiction, a paradox....like duhhh.

I can understand paradox and contradiction. But that's not what I see here. What I see is that the concept of infinity is not being used correctly. Every fiction author knows that precision in wording is essential for clarity. Picking the right word for the right place is an art. If doing metaphor or simile, you could use a word that has a different meaning. In those cases, where a metaphor and simile are used with a word out of context, it's usually made clear enough that the sentence isn't literal. It's figurative, meant for expression and nothing more.

If you're using the concept of infinity as a metaphor(unrecognized meaning behind the word), then using it as a premise in an argument wrong, plain and simple.

For example, if we're not speaking in metaphor, what do these sentences mean: "Very simply, the infinite (Unmanifestable) and finite (time-space) oppose each other and that produces cycles in the finite, that's easy to understand, new, but simple. The paradox is driving endlessly recurring cycles just like a commutator drives an electric motor, it's that simple."

Explain the process by which both the infinite and the finite combine(or oppose) forces to produce or manipulate cycles. What is this process? Initially, it reads as a metaphor, then we're supposed to believe it's morphed into a literal interpretation.

So you can be picky over language salad and score points, or you can open your heart and mind, which will naturally happen at this time or not, a time to choose no less.

False beliefs, false stories, and false convictions outnumber the truthful by hundreds of orders of magnitude. Likely much more than that. The truth is rare, and everyone has their own mutually exclusive philosophy they want you to believe.

It's not acceptable to simply open you mind to all these ideas, without a filter in place to weed out what isn't true. That filter is critical thinking, and requires analyzing the words to assess their merit. If there's any advice you've given so far that I completely disagree with, it's that others should open their minds. Horrible advice. Don't close your minds either; balance is key. Keep a critical eye on everything you're exposed to, since the majority of what you hear will be false. The true minority should be what you 'want' to hear, you need to fight off your own cognitive biases. Ignore what you want to believe, and trust in the process of critical thought.

Supposedly there is a method of acquiring knowledge that is not related to logic. This method is not the trial and error of science either. If that's the method you must use to understand, then you'll need to explain it to me. I'm quite good at meditating, so if it involves inner perception I'm familiar enough with it to understand. Please explain it to me.

My God it's the f'ing word police.... people are starving and oppressed all around the world and who do we get......the f'ing word police. Hey, did you know that most people use the word apparently in place of supposedly, like 'Well apparently she is sleeping with so and so...' When it's not apparent, it's just a rumour, and also they now use the word mental for insane when mental really means cerebral......I'm sure you can hunt them down in your brown anorak and sandals with socks.


Let's not waste any more of each others time..... this conversation never ends....well....until the fat lady sings, and no a fat lady is not going to actually sing at the end of the world.
Before you start.....

Meditation is begging for enlightenment, facing up to injustice is to align yourself with God, it creates the connection us Jews call Kabbalah, and no not the commercial Kabbalah that sells red string voodoo bracelets for £20 a pop.......

Do I seem flippant, yes, the question was rhetorical. I woke 17 years ago after working at the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem. I headed a four man team laying 140 tonne of sheet lead to the lower roof slopes surrounding the Dome. Back then I was naïve and filled with the euphoria of seeing God. But then God systematically showed me how people have become unreachable, they will not listen, they already know it all, which is why the revelation is looming, and it won't be pretty, our world is war torn despite all the knowledge we have amassed, so Pops is undoing his belt!!! The time for talking is over. When the revelation comes you will either move on to a new progressive 'reality', a more complex exploration of consciousness that will be allowed via peace and tolerance, or you will end. The time for monkey pack politics is over. The cancer will be cut, and only then the healing can begin.
No not love and puppies, flowers and clouds. Real people with real emotions speaking their truths and allowing others. We will 'see' each other and drop the media speak.
The ones who end? They'll be back next time, (cyclic) they never see the truth, they call them the children of the dark, they get their 'heaven' here by way of money and power and that creates the harsh premise that lends appreciation.

But then you disagree and you don't like my stance, and that's fine.

Tick tock

Do me one favour.....if you chose against what is on it's way, then have the balls to go down with dignity, stand by your choice. Do not cry and beg, 'Oh I didn't know God was real boo hoo'. No one knew that God was real, this to allow for choice.

Today everything is calm and corporate. When you see God your whole world changes, you can't imagine it, it will sideswipe you.

But then maybe I am crazy, yeah that must be it.......

Understand that I bare you no malice but the change has to come, the bully in the playground has gone way too far, the violent act that will be unleashed was initiated by the bully, a case of be careful what you wish for. If you choose peace then you will live in a peaceful vibrant reality, which will not be 'perfect', it will simple be less extreme, we still need challenges or life becomes pointless, which is why it reboots eventually anyhow. That's how the infinite seems to renew. You see the infinite can't renew, it can't get bigger as it has no size, so we soul aspects sleep and wake to it, forget to remember. A rest is as good as a change.

I'm out of here

I don't know why but I wish you well, hope you make it, that's just how I am. And if you don't then so beit........that's called acceptance.

I don't seem very spiritual do I? Most things are not what they seem. If you believe in equality and unity, sharing helping then I would give my life for you, really! If you do not then I will give my life to stop you.
I'm polarised.

My God it's the f'ing word police.... people are starving and oppressed all around the world and who do we get......the f'ing word police. Hey, did you know that most people use the word apparently in place of supposedly, like 'Well apparently she is sleeping with so and so...' When it's not apparent, it's just a rumour, and also they now use the word mental for insane when mental really means cerebral......I'm sure you can hunt them down in your brown anorak and sandals with socks.

The majority of my day I play fast and loose with words, not caring if I capture meaning or confuse the people around me. When the 'word police' arrive to social events, it's annoying and I love taking them down a notch. But using precision wording when you're explaining what you believe to be true is mandatory. It's not an option to have loose wording, and calling someone the "word police" for pointing out errors shows that you don't know when to heave the insult. If we can't demand clarity in non-fiction, then we're all SOL.

Understand that I bare you no malice but the change has to come, the bully in the playground has gone way too far, the violent act that will be unleashed was initiated by the bully, a case of be careful what you wish for.

If asking for clarity is now considered bullying, then you need to turn your questions inward. If you can't be clear, is it your fault, or the fault of your beliefs? Sometimes, being unable to "clarify" what you believe is the primary indicator that your belief is false. If your introspection is keen enough, you'll recognize that wisdom.



The person asking for clarification is not the villain. Typically, he's the hero.

To summarise, Steve Berg, writing here as Booky Bookerton, considers himself an apostle for the author Camillo Loken, writing here as 1mind1energy, who has had a revelation from God of New Age mysticism.

It is all rather emotional, messianic and even demagogic, similar to the writer biomystic who we recently had conduct a similar seagull performance at Booktalk. If you don't "unite" under the great and wise leadership of Mr Loken, then you are an "anorak", a new demonisation term for people who think logically.

Steve Berg has summarised his view that precision is not needed in the revelation of spiritual truth, apparently because asking exactly what words mean commits some sort of lese majestie against the messiah.

This question raised here by Mr Loken of the relation between the finite and the infinite is among the oldest and deepest questions in philosophy, summarised in Christian dogma as the relation between the finite Jesus of Nazareth and the infinite Christ of Faith, and in Plato as the relation between time and eternity. So they are great topics that Steve and Camillo are raising, but they would be more convincing if they turned the fervor dial down a few notches and the clarity dial up a few notches.

In this extract from his recent comment, Steve provides a welcome call for civility, but then offers a mysterious distinction between the mystical and the logical. I have read it several times but his meaning has not managed to penetrate my peculiarly thick noggin.

Steve Berg wrote:Word salad is for anoraks, when he says infinite potential he means many possibilities, a term of phrase, of course he doesn't think that the finite realm is infinite, he states that loads of times.
Everyone is being civil on this site, but it doesn't hide the fact that you either understand the first positive spiritual concept that is not mystical, it's very logical. Something that has the power to unite people of both the spiritual and scientific communities, and at a time when we really need to unite as the infighting on the planet is getting out of hand, the economy is failing due to the fight that is greed, children fighting over toys in the sand box. Or you don't.