The hypothetical past of some humanoids lacking religion is a fantasy. But that's a strawman if you think it's the vision the three horseman have. Using intellectual empathy, you'd see that they understand the past and present cannot be altered, of course. They're talking about the future, and a future without religion is a very real possibility whether you want to admit it or not.

This is where i was heading as well.

a place where belief in religion has never happened, and is apparently impossible is not the world we live in, and it doesn't involve creatures much like us.

@Interbane

The meme seed of atheism was harvested by prominent intellectuals of the past.
When considering their autobiographies, there is a pattern of an absent father, ill feelings between child and father, or extreme shame directed by the child to the father.

There's little questioning as to the origin of the meme virus that is Atheism, more specifically strong, vitriolic Atheism.
Most susceptible to this meme strain I'd think would be those who are subconsciously influenced by ill feelings toward a maternal father, a father figure, authority figure, or both.

Of course we all know you're above both psychological and evolutionary forces, Interbane. So I'd have to distinguish you as the intellectual among the group that is the exception, thus falsifying the aforementioned thesis.



But seriously though, our contemporary flock of atheists (strong vitriolic, sarcastic atheism) are regurgitating the ideas of atheism that were fathered by prominent intellectuals of the past who uncannily share daddy issues - some of which were severe.

ant wrote: The meme seed of atheism was harvested by prominent intellectuals of the past.
When considering their autobiographies, there is a pattern of an absent father, ill feelings between child and father, or extreme shame directed by the child to the father.

Do you have any evidence for this "daddy thesis" of yours, or are you just basing the motives of millions of atheists on a few anecdotes. You think they were all converted to atheism by reading a few books?

You could just easily say people who believe in a Sky Daddy obviously need a strong daddy.

Dexter wrote:

ant wrote: The meme seed of atheism was harvested by prominent intellectuals of the past.
When considering their autobiographies, there is a pattern of an absent father, ill feelings between child and father, or extreme shame directed by the child to the father.

Do you have any evidence for this "daddy thesis" of yours, or are you just basing the motives of millions of atheists on a few anecdotes. You think they were all converted to atheism by reading a few books?

You could just easily say people who believe in a Sky Daddy obviously need a strong daddy.

Atheism as propagated to the masses by prominent intellectuals and their autobiographies is pretty much out there for the taking.
There's a continuous pattern of daddy issues related to these particular atheists which were highly influential in spreading the atheistic meme - a meme virus that you no doubt caught at some point.
Oh, that's right - you're just not "wired" for belief. You're wired for evidence only!


And herein lies a blatant absurdity - atheists do not want to be subjected to psychological and evolutionary analysis but are more than happy to advance theistic psychological and evolutionary analyses.
What a joke

I'm not going to do your effin research work. Do it yourself.
It's out there, MISTER "I'm above evolutionary and psychological forces and atheism is not a Meme"

Of course we all know you're above both psychological and evolutionary forces, Interbane. So I'd have to distinguish you as the intellectual among the group that is the exception, thus falsifying the aforementioned thesis.

I often think I'm more neanderthal than homo sapien. Seriously. I have a square head and wrestle like a gorilla, my torso is longer than my legs and my neck hair always clogs up the barber's clippers. My words may be prim and proper, but the real me sitting here behind this keyboard is an ugly brute. And just because I don't mention my psychological failings doesn't mean I don't recognize them. While my strengths might be large, I sometimes think my faults are even larger.

There's little questioning as to the origin of the meme virus that is Atheism, more specifically strong, vitriolic Atheism.

If everything in this universe is determined, then there is always a precedent. The vitriol found in new atheism is a knee jerk reaction to having their "disbelief" classified as taboo for so long. Fifteen years ago when I was absorbed with figuring out the truth of the world, I was strongly, publicly rebuked a number of times for questioning religion. I understand how an overreach from one side leads to an overreach from the other. An overreaction due to oppression, of sorts. This was my experience and is my motivation. The daddy issue thing sounds like it's correlated with famous atheists, but we're speaking of causation.

Youre so modest its annoying

ant wrote: I'm not going to do your effin research work. Do it yourself.

Yes, I will go research your ridiculous daddy theory. brb

Dexter wrote:

ant wrote: I'm not going to do your effin research work. Do it yourself.

Yes, I will go research your ridiculous daddy theory. brb

Take your time.

ant wrote: The meme seed of atheism was harvested by prominent intellectuals of the past.
When considering their autobiographies, there is a pattern of an absent father, ill feelings between child and father, or extreme shame directed by the child to the father.

There's little questioning as to the origin of the meme virus that is Atheism, more specifically strong, vitriolic Atheism.
Most susceptible to this meme strain I'd think would be those who are subconsciously influenced by ill feelings toward a maternal father, a father figure, authority figure, or both.

This all makes little sense to me, ant, and you insist that there's no need even to prove it. Meme seeds, meme viruses, a little Freudianism thrown in--voila--and you have...just what? I don't find the meme talk is advancing your argument; that seems to be largely passe.

I don't need to repeat the tired old saying about what extraordinary claims require, right?

Most susceptible to this meme strain I'd think......

Obviously Ant is entitled to an opinion, but that doesn't mean it has any validity.
FWIW in my own experience being indoctrinated to believe the Bible as inerrant Truth, then actually reading the bloody document and finding the most egregious errors (as have so many others) - those contradictions and my turn towards atheism had absolutely nothing to do with father figures of any kind.

If we can put the theist on the couch of psychology and claim his fantasy of a loving, personal cosmic Father is based on fear.....

Ant's objection to this treatment (while attempting to fight back with a rather different father figure) seems to be at the root. But it is a weak objection. Has any Christian not experienced the fear of fire and brimstone? Or heard something like "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" by Jonathan Edwards? What if Ted Haggard is correct and T.D. Jakes is wrong? What if you're a Protestant or a Buddhist and the Catholic Church really is the One True Church?

And the odds against salvation:

After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
Revelation 7: 1-4 NIV

Hmmm... That's 144K out of 7.1 billion currently living or only a 0.00002% chance of making it into heaven. But wait, that's only those currently living! Oh Lord, what are my chances of making it into the 144K out of all who have ever lived??? Oh crap, that's 12K from each of the twelve tribes of Israel, but I'm not Jewish!