THE HOBBIT
J.R.R. Tolkien

Chapters 7-9

As I re-read "The Hobbit," I find myself comparing it to "Lord of the Rings," and how characters and creatures seem to appear in both works. (I have read the enitre LOTR trilogy, and seen the movies). An exmaple are the spiders of Mirkwood, definitely a precuresor to Shelob. If you haven't read LOTR - The Two Towers, you won't know who Shelob is. Hope this is not too much of a spoiler. It is in his confrontation with the spiders (aided by his magic ring) that Bilbo becomes more of a herioc character, albeit a reluctant one.

The wood elves sing, but can also be fierce adversaries. Bilbo is wise to avoid a direct confrontation. I find it interesting that the wood elves live in caves; in LOTR they seem to shun the underground, prefering the open air. Of course, it may be that Tolkien simply changed his treatment of them.

Beorn is something of an enigma. A shape-shifter (Tolkien calls him a 'skin-changer'), but not the familar werewolf. Rather, he is a werebear; though I think these are mentions in Norse mythology. Tolkiens use of the Nordic mythos has already been well documented here, so no further discussion is needed. But it is curious that Beorn, who is a substantial character in The Hobbit, does not appear in LOTR. Perhaps Tolkien simply could not find a way to fit him into the story.

Cattleman wrote:Beorn is something of an enigma. A shape-shifter (Tolkien calls him a 'skin-changer'), but not the familar werewolf. Rather, he is a werebear; though I think these are mentions in Norse mythology. Tolkiens use of the Nordic mythos has already been well documented here, so no further discussion is needed. But it is curious that Beorn, who is a substantial character in The Hobbit, does not appear in LOTR. Perhaps Tolkien simply could not find a way to fit him into the story.

I think of Beorn and Tom Bombadil in LOTR as being similar characters. They are each unique -- there are no others like them that we're made aware of. I think by introducing them Tolkien enhances the mystery of the reality he's creating for us. Their very uniqueness makes us wonder where they came from, how they got the powers they have (e.g., the One Ring doesn't work on Bombadil, remember? He puts it on and doesn't become invisible), why there aren't more like them since every other species we encounter seems to come in multiples.

In thinking about this, I realized I don't remember there being a Bombadil character in the movie adaptation of LOTR. Sure enough, I went and looked at the cast list in IMDB -- no Bombadil is listed.

Tolkien did write a book of poems titled "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil."
(Unfortunately, I have never read it.)

Beorn is a very interesting character. Tolkien writes about him, " Others say that he is a man descended from the first men who lived before the Smaug or the other dragons came into this part of the world, and before the goblins came into the hills out of the North".

Beorn domesticated animals, he harvests cream and honey. What is Tolkien saying here? Has manbecome extinct in this world? Is Beorn a descendent of a hunter gather society or maybe he is part cave man?

Beorn may have been a descendent of average men the horses and bees may have began life in this world as average creatures but evolved in such a manner to survive in this magical world.

The elves in Tolkien's mythos are a pretty complex group. There are a large variety of different kinds; some of them live in cavernous fortresses, some of them live in shining cities on islands or hills, some of them live in tree-cities like Lorien in LOTR. If you really want to get into all the elvish stuff, the Silmarillion is basically a history of Middle Earth that focuses on the Elves and their millenia-long war with Sauron and his master Melkor.

I really like Beorn. My favorite characters in books tend to be the enigmas or the really strange ones. I'm really enjoying the book. I still can't believe this is my first time reading it!

Why does the old feud between the dwarves and elves keep Thorin from revealing the reason they are going through the Mirkwood forest? How did the feud happen? Does either side seem justified in the feud?

flaco0 wrote:Why does the old feud between the dwarves and elves keep Thorin from revealing the reason they are going through the Mirkwood forest? How did the feud happen? Does either side seem justified in the feud?

Hello and welcome flaco. Thorin will not tell the wood elves the reason for the dwarves travels because of the treasure. Thorin is afraid that the elves will demand a share in this treasure. As far as the ancient feud, this passage from chapter eight may shed some light:

In ancient days they [the elves] had had wars with some of the dwarves, whom they accused of stealing their treasure. It is only fair to say that the dwarves gave a different account, and said that they only took what was their due, for the elf-king had bargained with them to shape his raw gold and silver, and had afterwards refused to them their pay.

In chapter nine, the elves sing a song while throwing the barrels into the water. The dwarves are hiding in these barrels unbeknownst to the elves. The song they sing is about the trip the barrels will be taking in the stream but it is also a song about the trip the dwarves will be taking as well hiding in the barrels.

Down the swift dark stream you go
Back to lands you once did know!
Leave the halls and caverns deep,
Leave the northern mountains
steep,

This song continues:

Past the rushes, past the reeds,
Past the marsh's waving weeds,
Through the mist that riseth white
Up from mere and pool at night!
Follow, follow stars that leap
Up the heavens cold and steep;
Turn when dawn comes over land,
Over rapid, over sand,
South away! South away!

I find these song to be really funny. The elves are not aware they are singing goodbye to the their captured dwarves.

If the elf king had a weakness it was for treasure, especially for silver and white gems; and though his hoard was rich, he was ever eager for more since he had not yet as great a treasure as other elf lords of old. His people neither mined nor worked metals or jewels, nor did they bother much with trade or with tilling the earth. All this was well known to every dwarf, though Thorin"s family had had nothing to do with the old quarrel I have spoken of.

It seems that greed started this war, but from the above quote, the feud, at least for Thorin will continue since he seems to feel that the elves are lazy and do not work for their wealth. However, Tolkien does not give a definitive account as to the reason for this war between elves and dwarves. If the elves and the dwarves are all thieves, is there any real justification on either side?