Spare the rod, spare the child.

johnson1010 · Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:22 am

First this:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=983_1318648745

Its a news story about a couple who adopted kids and then beat them, sometimes for 7 hours strait. As though it were a stay-at-home cottage industry.

Not surprisingly, they finally beat one of those poor kids to death.

Off to jail, and well deserved. I hope the remaining kid(s) find loving homes where they have more than an hour of un-interrupted peace and quiet.

The story goes to pains to link the beatings to a book published by another couple of religious ass-clowns who write books on how to properly beat your children. The story also tries to make the claim that the parents beat their kids because of that book.

Look. Clearly the parents were out-loud assholes who were planning to beat a kid to death in any case. They chose the particular methods of some other crazy people, but if they hadn't read that book they would have just beat them in their own, less refined way.

All the same, they did embrace this book and use it as a guide in how to beat their children. They site, and the book does as well, the bible (of course). Spare the rod, spoil the child.

Particularly, i liked the "if it wasn't true, why would god say it?" line.

And here's the basic problem with the whole scenario. Un-questioning adherence to the commands of authority.

realiz · Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:47 am

This is so, so sad. What really got me, was the interview with the author of the book and his example of how if a 7 year-old hit his sister he should be told that physical violence is wrong and then taken and hit 15 times. How can anyone see any logic in that?

It is really hard to say whether or not these parents truly believed they were doing the right thing by this type of punishment or whether they derived some warped pleasure from it. Either way, they are dangerous, sick people.

R. LeBeaux · Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:32 pm

This brings up several questions that psychologists have argued about with prosecutors over the years. For example:

- Do video games induce violence?

- Do kids kill due to the influence of various movies and TV shows?

- Do sex-education books and classes cause kids to experiment with sex early?

- Does the constant barrage of news reports on war numb kids to the actual effects of military conflict?

- Does conservative talk radio cause Tea Parties?

And on and on.

Perhaps someone would like to consider starting a thread on this specific subject?

johnson1010 · Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:15 pm

Lets talk it out in this thread.

alleyoop

puppet-master-media-t11591.html

giselle · Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:25 pm

I don't believe this sort of 'parenting' has anything to do with a valid parenting philosophy, religious or otherwise, its about anger and cruelty plain and simple. And chances are that this parental anger is rooted in problems that have nothing to do with the child. Hitting a defenseless, dependant child is just cowardly and I seriously doubt it is productive in terms of modifying behavior. Even if it were, the ends don't justify the means. I wonder if children who experience this sometimes come back later in life and even the score? This would just extend the cycle of violence, so not a good thing, but still I think it must occur to some of them.

President Camacho · Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:39 pm

In my opinion the question of child rearing is very tricky because you're creating a future member of society that everyone will have to either benefit from or be troubled by.

Adopting a kid and not treating him/her like your one and last chance to pass a little something of yourself on and to 'give back', to fulfill some part of nature, to re-create fond memories you had with your parents for a young person, is just really twisted. Why else adopt? And why the hell are adoption agencies letting people collect kids like this? It should be a huge red flag, shouldn't it? Don't people visit these damn kids to see that they aren't being stuck in pits and made to put the lotion on the skin or else it gets the hose again?

This couple was f*cked in the head for sure but I don't think there is anything wrong in beating YOUR OWN kid to death. They're your own blood and your own little creation. If it doesn't behave and you've beaten it to within an inch of its life and its still evil, put that extra inch of effort in and save society the trouble of putting up with it.

Honestly, and this is something weird with me. No I don't think that a parent should do whatever they want with their kid but I think that until the kid can legally separate from his parents the parents should be able to kill them whenever they see fit. Chances are likely that it will be the nut jobs that will kill their nut job children. Nature vs. Nurture? They're crazy and they're being raised by crazy parents... I see a win/win here.

R. LeBeaux · Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:04 pm


	President Camacho wrote: I don't think there is anything wrong in beating YOUR OWN kid to death. If it doesn't behave and you've beaten it to within an inch of its life and its still evil, put that extra inch of effort in and save society the trouble of putting up with it. I think that until the kid can legally separate from his parents the parents should be able to kill them whenever they see fit.

I'm not sure if this is some kind of bait to see what the reaction will be, but if it's not, I think you are a seriously disturbed and dangerous human being. I've read many of your posts in the past and have been impressed. However, if this is a realistic example of your philosophy on child rearing, I'm sorry, but I cannot simply consider it a debatable opinion that deserves even one iota of consideration by any sane human being.

anisha_astrologer · Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:43 am

you can't blame video games for the violent behaviour of kids. trust they learn first from their parents, it is later polished by external factors. and beating them to tame them down is not a solution. my heart goes out to those poor kids. may other kids find a loving home.

takakoanami · Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:46 am

Why this couple does adopted those children in the first place if they will just beat ‘em that’s ridiculous. Being a disciplinarian is a good thing, it is actually one way of showing love, but they could have done it in a nice way and I mean it’s has nothing to do with the physical violence.
I was just wondering didn’t the child welfare organizations checked the couples who wanted to adopt thoroughly?

:stop:

Suzanne · Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:05 am

Media can impact children, many songs, movies and video games can be extremely violent, but the impact that this media has may be to desensitize kids who see and hear real violence. Songs may have the most impact. If children witness violence in or around their homes and see there are no repercussions for these crimes, yes, a hit song that memorializes violence will affect kids. The affect being, violence is accepted, seen to be normal outside of their circumstances and may even be seen as glamorous. So what happens is the criminals get younger and younger and the crimes become more serious.

If a child witnesses his mother being beaten, and no one comes to the mother’s aid, or tries to stop it, and then a song comes out about beating up girlfriends, that child is going to get the message that beating up women is accepted not only in their homes, but by society. This message starts with living with violence, witnessing it or being a victim of it, but may be reinforced by media, especially if violent songs and other media outlets are successful.


	R. LeBeaux wrote: I'm not sure if this is some kind of bait to see what the reaction will be, but if it's not, I think you are a seriously disturbed and dangerous human being. I've read many of your posts in the past and have been impressed. However, if this is a realistic example of your philosophy on child rearing, I'm sorry, but I cannot simply consider it a debatable opinion that deserves even one iota of consideration by any sane human being.

President Camacho should be banned immediately! Being hung drawn and quartered is too good for that degenerate! :wink:

President Camacho · Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:58 am

My response was exaggerated but there is some truth in my backlash to people that stick their nose in the rearing of other's children when it's not necessary. I'd rather have someone who's unable to use psychology in order to restrain and guide their children, beat them. That's way more palatable to me than having to eat my dinner while a child goes zooming through the restaurant screaming.

I was beaten and I have only been in a single fight. In real life, I'm a very easy going person. So much so people think I have a hidden agenda. I'm also very quiet and I collect guns.

Anyway, America seems to be very 'hands off' when it comes to raising children these days (hehe). A lot of families are single parent and both parents work menial jobs. They are stressed and don't have time to adequately bring up kids. Then you have the schools that push them through now as none can fail. No beatings, no failure, everyone gets a trophy... I am a liberal but this is just ridiculous.

R. LeBeaux · Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:50 am


	Suzanne wrote: President Camacho should be banned immediately! Being hung drawn and quartered is too good for that degenerate!

It's interesting that he uses derogatory quotes from others in his signature (now including one of mine) as if he were proud of them. Noting the wink at the end of your comment, I wonder if I am missing something here? Is this some kind of Booktalk inside joke?

realiz · Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:06 pm

R. LeBeaux wrote:


	Suzanne wrote: President Camacho should be banned immediately! Being hung drawn and quartered is too good for that degenerate!

It's interesting that he uses derogatory quotes from others in his signature (now including one of mine) as if he were proud of them. Noting the wink at the end of your comment, I wonder if I am missing something here? Is this some kind of Booktalk inside joke?

I think there are few of us who enjoy his bluntness and his not shying back from giving his opinions, exaggerated as they might be. If you step back from taking offence at his words, you can see his point.

Many people have grown up in homes where physical punishment was the norm and they have turned out to be great people. I have seen homes where physical punishment (spanking) was used by good, loving parents and I am sure it has caused a lot less harmful after effects than parenting styles that lack any kind of discipline and structure or lack love and attention.

Also, I agree with P. Camacho in that we do have to be careful about how much we try to govern the way people raise their children. I think is point is that the biggest percentage of people love their kids more than anything in the world and try very hard to do the best for them. There is so much disagreement about what is the best way to raise children and so we have to give parents as much autonomy as possible.

I would guess that P. Camacho has no children, which makes his response seem a little heartless. And, I have to add, that I do believe that parents who adopt children can can love those children, blood or not, every bit as much as biological parents.

President Camacho · Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:02 pm

I think this whole issue is an awesome topic and is infinitely debatable. The best part about this debate is that it largely refrains from devolving into eristics. Why? Most want to know 'the right way' because raising a child is so very important to us all (or should be, right????). But we each have our own views based on our individual experiences and wish to defend them.

Each person is different and each little person is a product of the two parents who raise them - both by nature and nurture. We can reach a common consensus that abuse and neglect aren't healthy and shouldn't be allowed but we can't agree on what is considered abuse or neglect. It's the gray areas that we have a hard time agreeing on the most and so to each their own in my opinion. Raising a child how you see fit IS freedom. Granted, I feel a child has very real 'natural rights'. I'm a firm believer in natural rights. Children are a product of you, a reflection of you, and you should be allowed to do whatever you feel is right to raise that child the way you wish... to a degree of course!

That was a great post on parenting realiz.

No, I don't have any children and I don't have any plans for them. I am a member of society, though. I don't feel I should have to suffer some other person's burden because they're too lazy to discipline their child. Spank them. They need it. I'll applaud you. When they graduate college, refrain from hard drugs, and succeed in life THEY'LL applaud you. I'd spank them for you but I'd go to jail.

"It takes a community to raise a child." Whoever wrote that must have lived in a different time/place/planet.

Damifino · Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:54 pm


	President Camacho wrote: This couple was f*cked in the head for sure but I don't think there is anything wrong in beating YOUR OWN kid to death. They're your own blood and your own little creation. If it doesn't behave and you've beaten it to within an inch of its life and its still evil, put that extra inch of effort in and save society the trouble of putting up with it.

I'm sorta new here....are we allowed to get stoned and type here? I can do that but. This is so way off.

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