Safety is Freedom!

Asana Bodhitharta · Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:22 am Post subject: Safety is Freedom!

If people cannot experience relative safety, they cannot experience true freedom. In places that are crime ridden there virtually are no laws, no rules and no impediments in the way of violent men to feel free, but those who are not violent and have no protection and hence no safety, experience no freedom.

I believe if anyone can escape or be safe from violence they can experience freedom. If you look at the prison system, it will become clear to anyone that the most valuable asset within this confined environment is safety. When a prisoner feels safe, he feels relative freedom whether he is a prisoner of war or a common criminal and it is a poor prison system that cannot keep safe all prisoners, because victimization in prison leads to victimization in society. This is not an issue of defending actual criminals because in local Jails as oppose to prison there are people who are presumed innocent because they have not been convicted yet. Shouldn’t these people be as safe as possible?

Safety is more valuable to all of society because it is safety that creates true freedom. Consider post slavery in America. The slaves were set “free” but they were not safe. In-fact it was a fact that merely being black was both dangerous and limiting. When you have hate and oppression surrounding someone that person cannot experience freedom and although they may be legally free, the fact is they cannot conduct or express themselves freely as it may garner violence and maybe even death. Could I even write this essay with a sense of freedom unless I felt it was safe to do so? So safety must be a requirement to experience freedom.

Perhaps many will answer this question from a perspective of freedom being limited to provide safety is not best. These are people who already feel safe and they just abhor delays and intrusions. These people are very much concerned that the government wants to tap their phone, read their mail and know every personal thing about them, to those people this type of invasion of privacy is limiting their freedom. The fact is, if you are conducting yourself well in society how could this limit a person’s freedom. I am not saying that spying on its citizens is a proper thing for a government to do, I am just saying that if there is a genuine need to do so it should be done.

Freedom is more valuable to individuals but safety is a group experience because we all want to be safe from each other. There are police forces that severely limit the freedom of some to make others “feel” safe. All law should be geared to protect individuals from a dangerous society. There should not be laws that limit personal freedoms of the individual. For instance drug laws against possession and use of “some” drugs go against individual freedom and this increases violence in society.

In conclusion, let it be said that safety is freedom in society. And at the point when we can be protected by and safe from our government and our police, the freedom of everyone increases and when we are safe from criminals, and each other, then we can truly be free. Yes, Safety is Freedom, indeed!

irishrosem · Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:11 am Post subject: Re: Safety is Freedom!

Asana, what's the citation on this drivel you printed?

Here's a thought:

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
--attributed to Benjamin Franklin

Asana Bodhitharta · Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: Safety is Freedom!

Quote:
Asana, what's the citation on this drivel you printed?

Here's a thought:

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
--attributed to Benjamin Franklin

I wrote it. Also Benjamin Franklin said that from a safe place. I wonder what his slavesthought about that statement.

Remember the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution was written during a time where "black" people were neither safe nor free.

Rich206 · Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: Safety is Freedom!

Quote:
When a prisoner feels safe, he feels relative freedom...

No, he does not. He feels relative safety, and I speak from personal experience. Before I eventually found my way to sobriety, I spent thirty days as a guest of the Massachusetts Department of Corrections. After being kept in a poorly supervised holding facility, I was sent to a medium security facility, and we lived in large open dorms where personal safety wasn't much of an issue. However, there was no freedom. We were subjected to random searches, told when to shower, eat or use the bathrooms and kept under constant surveillance.

The corrections officers did a fine job of protecting us from each other, but we had neither privacy nor freedom. I preferred the more supervised prison to the anarchic holding facility; I felt a lot safer, but I certainly felt no freer. I felt the loss of freedom so strongly that I resolved never to put myself in that situation again, and I never have.

Quote:
Could I even write this essay with a sense of freedom unless I felt it was safe to do so?

If you are an American citizen, your freedom of speech was added to the Constitution to protect you from government oppression. That you would then segue into arguing in favor of the government spying on its own citizens is ironic to say the least.

Quote:
These are people who already feel safe and they just abhor delays and intrusions. These people are very much concerned that the government wants to tap their phone, read their mail and know every personal thing about them, to those people this type of invasion of privacy is limiting their freedom. The fact is, if you are conducting yourself well in society how could this limit a person’s freedom.

There are people who understand that government is not inherently benevolent. We cannot have a free society unless the rights of the people are protected from the government. The government consists of people, and our rights must be protected from those in power using fear to seize an opportunity to increase their power over us.

Government spying won't protect you from neighborhood crime, but it will erode your rights. To reduce those who stand up for their rights (and yours) to the level of those who are concerned with nuisances or trivialities is disgusting.

Quote:
All law should be geared to protect individuals from a dangerous society. There should not be laws that limit personal freedoms of the individual.

How can you argue against laws that limit personal freedom when you've already argued in favor of sacrificing freedom from government intrusion into one's personal life in favor of the "safety" this will allegedly provide? How will the government tapping my phone or reading my mail protect me as an individual from a dangerous society?

Laws should be geared to providing as much safety as is possible without sacrificing too much freedom. Safety and freedom are not equivalent, and balance must be sought between the two.

irishrosem · Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: Safety is Freedom!

Asana, I continue to be dumbfounded at your willingness to make rash statements that exhibit your substantial lack of knowledge. When Franklin and the other signatories of the Declaration of Independence signed their names, they were essentially signing their own death warrants in the event they lost the war. (Guess who was the underdog in that military campaign?) Franklin is reported to have said at the signing: “We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.” Franklin’s liberty/security statement likely dates to the 1760s, but it was surely directed at the danger Americans would experience if they decided to fight for independence from the crown. Safety did not permit Franklin’s statement, it’s called balls. The same balls abolitionists (like Franklin) and black slaves later used to win their freedom.

As for safety dictating freedom. Who was more “safe” than women that belonged to the upperclass during the Victorian era? Where was their freedom, since they were so safe? God, you really are profoundly stupid.

Also, from your history of plagiarizing, I find it difficult to believe you constructed that “thought” above.

Asana Bodhitharta · Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: Safety is Freedom!

Quote:
Asana, I continue to be dumbfounded at your willingness to make rash statements that exhibit your substantial lack of knowledge. When Franklin and the other signatories of the Declaration of Independence signed their names, they were essentially signing their own death warrants in the event they lost the war. (Guess who was the underdog in that military campaign?) Franklin is reported to have said at the signing: “We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.” Franklin’s liberty/security statement likely dates to the 1760s, but it was surely directed at the danger Americans would experience if they decided to fight for independence from the crown. Safety did not permit Franklin’s statement, it’s called balls. The same balls abolitionists (like Franklin) and black slaves later used to win their freedom.

As for safety dictating freedom. Who was more “safe” than women that belonged to the upperclass during the Victorian era? Where was their freedom, since they were so safe? God, you really are profoundly stupid.

Also, from your history of plagiarizing, I find it difficult to believe you constructed that “thought” above.

I never say that I wrote something and didn't write it. I wrote the article.

To be resolute in purpose is to have a secure mind, a secure mind is a free mind.

Franklin was saying that we must become secure or we will all perish, so either we perish in our pursuit of freedom from tyranny or we will perish from tyranny.

MaesterAuron151 · Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Safety is Freedom!

Well he does have a point. Safety and freedom do need to be balanced in a society.

Asana Bodhitharta · Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Safety is Freedom!

Quote:
Well he does have a point. Safety and freedom do need to be balanced in a society.

On the deepest level they are equivalents.

Total safety= Total freedom

Chris OConnor · Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: Safety is Freedom!

If I lock you in a padded cell with no means of escape, but I provide you with the very best in medical care, food and personal safety are you free? You would never experience any threats or physical dangers. How free would you be in this scenario?

MaesterAuron151 · Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Safety is Freedom!

Quote:
On the deepest level they are equivalents.

Total safety= Total freedom

That I disagree with entirely.

minority mandate · Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:56 pm Post subject: Re: Safety is Freedom!

How about restating the proposition: Saftey is the prerequisite for freedom.

A person in constant fear for his life may have all the potential freedom in the world, but his concern for self preservation severely limits his movements, his choices, and even his thoughts. In such a situation only the fearless monk has freedom, and he perhaps for only a short time until he is killed. That is a bogus freedom circumscribed by lack of safety.

On the other hand saftey might be found in a high security prision where every move is dictated, that is safety at the expense of freedom.

Most people, excepting perhaps ole Ben, will chose saftey now in hopes of obtaining freedom later. It doesn't work as well the other way around.

minority mandate · Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:11 am Post subject: Re: Safety is Freedom!

Skydiving is (to date) free, but not safe if you chose to jump. But, it is neither free nor safe if you are pushed. However, it is both safe and free if you chose not to jump, and are not pushed. If you are prevented from jumping then you are safe, but not free. In any case, if no one prevents you, then you are free to jump - or free not to jump, the decision of safety is up to you. Unfortunately, you are still faced with a either/or quandry, unless you come up with a viable alternative.

The same could be said for laying about on the couch eating potato chips and drinking Jim Beam.

Asana Bodhitharta · Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:21 am Post subject: Re: Safety is Freedom!

Quote:
Skydiving is (to date) free, but not safe if you chose to jump. But, it is neither free nor safe if you are pushed. However, it is both safe and free if you chose not to jump, and are not pushed. If you are prevented from jumping then you are safe, but not free. In any case, if no one prevents you, then you are free to jump - or free not to jump, the decision of safety is up to you. Unfortunately, you are still faced with a either/or quandry, unless you come up with a viable alternative.

Sky diving is safe if you choose to jump unless you choose to jump without a parachute in which case it is not free either.

MaesterAuron151 · Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: Safety is Freedom!

Quote:
However, it is both safe and free if you chose not to jump, and are not pushed.

Only if this choice is made out of personal preference. If it is made out of fear despite a desire to sky dive you're not free. A person could want to sky dive but simply be too frightened to do it. That person would not be free he/she would be restrained by conflicting emotions.

Asana Bodhitharta · Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Safety is Freedom!

Quote:
Only if this choice is made out of personal preference. If it is made out of fear despite a desire to sky dive you're not free. A person could want to sky dive but simply be too frightened to do it. That person would not be free he/she would be restrained by conflicting emotions.

They would be restrained by feelings of not being safe.


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