Saddam and Iraq. They were just begging for war!

johnson1010 · Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:44 pm

Look how he taunts our former president! They were clearly an imminent threat to the united states.

http://www.wimp.com/pasttalk/

President Camacho · Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:09 pm

Thank goodness we invaded that country, killed their countrymen, got our countrymen killed, destroyed their country's infrastructure, displaced thousands, caused a mass exodus, killed their ruler's family, hung Saddam in front of a live audience, transferred hundreds of billions of dollars to companies like Haliburton, and created global instability. Thank Goodness! At least the crying mom's of the world can console themselves as they lean against their child's grave marker that their sons and daughters fought for ...fought for.... fought bravely.

Robert Tulip · Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:14 pm

The wounded giant sought emotional revenge for the humiliation of 911. The invasion of Iraq was about teaching Islamists that the USA is the dominant secular power of our planet. Saddam was an easy target. Action motivated by emotional revenge rarely produces desirable results. Containing Saddam and pursuing a rational strategy to reduce terror would have produced higher contemporary world respect for the USA, as well as saving much blood and tears and money. If the money spent on war had been invested in economic development, the USA would have built friends and partners instead of enemies.

Emperorbjt · Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:28 pm


	Robert Tulip wrote: The wounded giant sought emotional revenge for the humiliation of 911. The invasion of Iraq was about teaching Islamists that the USA is the dominant secular power of our planet. Saddam was an easy target. Action motivated by emotional revenge rarely produces desirable results. Containing Saddam and pursuing a rational strategy to reduce terror would have produced higher contemporary world respect for the USA, as well as saving much blood and tears and money. If the money spent on war had been invested in economic development, the USA would have built friends and partners instead of enemies.

You hit in on the head with the term "emotional revenge". I am not someone who thinks the "I told you so" attitude is usually helpful or becoming of a thinking person. But as an American who admittedly opposed the war before it began, I make an exception on this issue.

Why on this issue? Not because the entire adventure and was ill conceived and steeped in a misunderstanding of the facts, but because of the vitriol and name calling that spewed out of many of my fellow citizens who cheered the buildup to the invasion, and who directed mindless rage against those who opposed it.

Contributing to the problem is the fact that so many of us, do not even have a basic grasp of history or current events. I remember debating a few folks before this started, and trying to point out that attacking Iraq at that point was akin to the United States attacking China in response to Pearl Harbor. As I recall, I was greeted with glassy eyed puzzlement. I would have respected an argument negating my point, but none of the folks that I speaking to had any idea of China's role in World War II and seemed not even have known clearly what countries were involved in that conflict. After a moment or so one of these folks just responded with something like, "You forget that we were attacked!"

What is most ironic, and a little amusing is the number of people that I know personally who adamantly supported the war in the early days, but who now after things did not go quite as well as planned, claim to have opposed the action from the beginning.

Taylor · Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:50 am

The simple truth of the Iraq invasion was that it was as ripe for the taking as it was going to get, And
merely a point that if the U.S. didn't take it some other more nefarious group would have.

Azrael · Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:13 am

The Iraqi invasion was nothing more than a get even scheme by Bush to make a mends as his father did not get him. Someone explain how Clinton kept him in check with the No Fly Zone for eight years? Then along comes war mongering Bush. Eight years of Bush is the reason the US is in the shape it is now. His focus was more on "war" than here at home! Bush destroyed the very foundation that the US rested upon. While I in no way condone what Saddam did and mind you it was wrong. Genocide is wrong no matter how you look at it but the approach the Bush administration took in my view was wreckless and without forethought it was a revenge factor pure and simple.

President Camacho · Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:16 pm

The funny thing is people have already forgotten about Bush. The shame.... the shame.... it's yesterday's news. LOL

Who cares... don't blame our country's current situation on Bush. tune in to Fox news and learn the real story, ok? Ignorant bastards you are.

There really was no Bush presidency.. don't you know this? It was something that happened so many years ago that it doesn't matter!!!!! Get over it!!! When watching Fox do you even hear his name? No! That's because what he did was irrelevant to today. What's important is that you contribute to military spending to finance Obama's wars and that welfare stops and that his sordid health-care scheme, social security nonsense, unions (communism), and any other safety net you may have for total destitution be completely eliminated. Why can't you get that through your heads?

Face it! You are a member of the middle class! You're the luckiest people on the face of the earth - all of you who read this (everyone's a member of the middle class besides those that aren't!). Never mind that you are slinking further away from the upper class and speedily sliding towards the lower class- it's the economy caused by over spending! The only way to cure the economy is to limit spending... NO NO NO!!! NOT on the military, not on subsidies for wealthy Americans who provide you with work at minimum wage - but on programs that have been established for people not in your predicament. You know who I'm talking about!! Those people who make just under what you make! You know... those trash of the earth who can't even make enough to feed their children!!!

So tune in to Fox! And learn the real story! Hail America! Eagles! Buttons! Flag Lapel Pins! Bombs!

Remember, work is what makes you money. Work harder. Those that aren't working hard enough are the ones that suffer. Why are you suffering? Because of the economy. You are working hard enough. It's just tough times. Those other people are wrong, though. Trust in me and Fox news and we'll make this country strong again, ok?

Oh, I almost forgot. Do away with income tax! Sales tax only!!!! do away with the IRS and save gabijillions!

johnson1010 · Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:02 pm

Spoken like a REAL american.

Robert Tulip · Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:25 pm


	President Camacho wrote: The funny thing is people have already forgotten about Bush. The shame.... the shame.... it's yesterday's news. LOL Who cares... don't blame our country's current situation on Bush. tune in to Fox news and learn the real story, ok? Ignorant bastards you are. There really was no Bush presidency.. don't you know this? It was something that happened so many years ago that it doesn't matter!!!!! Get over it!!! When watching Fox do you even hear his name? No! That's because what he did was irrelevant to today. What's important is that you contribute to military spending to finance Obama's wars and that welfare stops and that his sordid health-care scheme, social security nonsense, unions (communism), and any other safety net you may have for total destitution be completely eliminated. Why can't you get that through your heads? Face it! You are a member of the middle class! You're the luckiest people on the face of the earth - all of you who read this (everyone's a member of the middle class besides those that aren't!). Never mind that you are slinking further away from the upper class and speedily sliding towards the lower class- it's the economy caused by over spending! The only way to cure the economy is to limit spending... NO NO NO!!! NOT on the military, not on subsidies for wealthy Americans who provide you with work at minimum wage - but on programs that have been established for people not in your predicament. You know who I'm talking about!! Those people who make just under what you make! You know... those trash of the earth who can't even make enough to feed their children!!! So tune in to Fox! And learn the real story! Hail America! Eagles! Buttons! Flag Lapel Pins! Bombs! Remember, work is what makes you money. Work harder. Those that aren't working hard enough are the ones that suffer. Why are you suffering? Because of the economy. You are working hard enough. It's just tough times. Those other people are wrong, though. Trust in me and Fox news and we'll make this country strong again, ok? Oh, I almost forgot. Do away with income tax! Sales tax only!!!! do away with the IRS and save gabijillions!

Camacho, your comments here illustrate how George Orwell has influenced your thinking through 1984, especially in your ironic observation that in the world according to Fox there never was a Bush presidency. The episode in 1984 where the Ministry of Truth amends past records to serve current propaganda is a chilling insight into the operation of empire. We now see Fox News operating on a similar principle, of forgetting the problems and facts that got America into its strained relations with the Muslim world. The USA is extremely rich by world standards, against the world median income of three dollars per day. The alternative paths to secure wealth are to build walls between the rich and the poor like the Israel separation barrier, or to seek dialogue and focus on economic development to build prosperous and friendly allies. My view is that a more generous attitude to the poor of the world would serve America's national security and economic interests.

President Obama obtained power from his opposition to the Iraq War from the start of the Democratic primary elections, a stance that separated him from Mrs Clinton and the other candidates. His Cairo speech offered an olive branch of reconciliation and peace towards Islam. At the time of his election as President, people said he showed the capacity of the USA to re-invent itself. Such re-invention is contested, and requires the ability to engage in debate with the conservative base while recognising their legitimate views. It requires a balance between military and economic instruments in foreign relations. I for one am grateful that Obama has remained engaged in Afghanistan, stopping the Taliban from returning that part of the world to the Dark Ages.

From my interest in overseas aid programs, I find it surprising that there is so little public interest in the use of development cooperation for political and economic security. The lack of planning for the Iraq War was an amazing disaster, heedless of the destructive impact of the military invasion. Things that were unknown to Secretary Rumsfeld were well known to others who predicted the train wreck. By containing Iraq, and focusing instead on how the US could assist countries to improve their situation, the resources applied to the war could have been invested more wisely.

In part, the weak contribution of development assistance to security and economic debate reflects that the main constituencies for aid are rich country charities and governments, neither of whom now has clear ideas about economic partnership for security. Aid can transform poor countries into entrepreneurial capitalist economies, to build the tax base to pay for social services. The charity approach of improving health and education services for the poor is a slow and uncertain path to achieve economic transformation. By enlisting cooperation of business, and maintaining or increasing financial aid flows, the USA and its friends can work to drain the swamp that feeds terrorism.

President Camacho · Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:41 pm

I dunno. Countries don't just become the United States. They go through growing pains similar to what China is going through. Can you imagine an entire world full of nations like China?

I don't want to. It would be pretty damn scary.

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