Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 3893 Location: Berryville, Virginia
Thanks: 689 Thanked: 562 times in 454 posts
Gender: Country:
Rep. Peter King to conduct hearings on threat of Islam
The hearings may have already started. Officially, their title is "The Extent of Radicalization in the American Muslim Community and That Community's Response." My local newspaper, always fervent about the threat of Muslims, this morning was blasting an op-ed in the same issue by Richard Cohen, who thinks the hearings are a big mistake. (I do give my newspaper credit for at least running Cohen's piece.) My question about these hearings is why have them if there isn't something specific to investigate? As Cohen says, did Congress ever investigate the American Catholic Church, with far greater reason existing for doing so? I think the hearings are a bad idea, too, but not because the topic itself shouldn't be discussed. That's okay; it doesn't mean anyone is a bigot just for raising the issue. But having Congress involved is using government power to target a group, and in our history hasn't that always been seen as a mistake in retrospect?
Joined: Nov 2010 Posts: 798 Images: 1 Location: Maine
Thanks: 45 Thanked: 173 times in 128 posts
Gender: Country:
Re: Rep. Peter King to conduct hearings on threat of Islam
It does rather remind one of the Mc Carthy hearings, right? I am trying not to watch any political news or talk shows anymore on t.v. ("young"old age where I am is not the time to get stressed by things you can do nothing about) Anyway I did catch a glimpse of O'Reilly and Riveria about this question. I thought Geraldo was pretty naive.
I guess I would rather see a Teddy Roosevelt approach. Did you ever read the book Infidel, Dwill? About the Dutch writer, Theo Van Gogh (great nephew of Vincent) who was murdered on the street because of a film clip he showed on t.v. about Islam?
Actually the book was really a biography but the death of Van Gogh was a pivotal feature in her life.
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 3893 Location: Berryville, Virginia
Thanks: 689 Thanked: 562 times in 454 posts
Gender: Country:
Re: Rep. Peter King to conduct hearings on threat of Islam
I haven't read the book you mention, but I don't need to be convinced that there exists a very dangerous bunch who want to kill people in the name of Islam. There isn't anything we can do to change these terrorists once they've gone off on that path. All we can do is fight them. There's another kind of fight, though, and that's for the hearts and minds of their co-religionists. That's the really important one to win for our long-term security.
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 3223 Location: Canberra
Thanks: 819 Thanked: 817 times in 614 posts
Gender: Country:
Re: Rep. Peter King to conduct hearings on threat of Islam
DWill wrote:
There's another kind of fight [with Islamists] though, and that's for the hearts and minds of their co-religionists. That's the really important one to win for our long-term security.
This goes back to the reason for the rise of Islam in the first place. Christianity corrupted the hearts and minds of Europe so badly with all its lies that Christians could not even see the depth of their error. Islam originally represented a return to pure faith in God. Christian nations will never win the hearts and minds of Muslims until Christians look hard in the mirror and confess the faults of Christianity. Atheism has made a start on this process, but it has much further to go. The key missing step in the atheist debate is the need to recognise the psychological need for religion, and to satisfy this general human need in a rational way. Islam will continue to grow until a scientific religion emerges that can compel conversion by pure reason. The West has no superior coherent doctrine to offer to Muslims as yet. The superiority of western ideas remains an incoherent mess from the Islamic perspective. Muslims do not want science and technology if these come with a moral vacuum.
Joined: Nov 2010 Posts: 798 Images: 1 Location: Maine
Thanks: 45 Thanked: 173 times in 128 posts
Gender: Country:
Re: Rep. Peter King to conduct hearings on threat of Islam
Robert said:
Quote:
The key missing step in the atheist debate is the need to recognise the psychological need for religion, and to satisfy this general human need in a rational way.
This is the question that interests me the most, Robert in the debate of faith vs. atheism. However I don't think it can be answered by a "scientific" approach to religion. The need is emotional and spiritual and mythic. It is not rational or intellectual. I sure wish there were a test devised that could tell us why humans differ in their needs for this.
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 3893 Location: Berryville, Virginia
Thanks: 689 Thanked: 562 times in 454 posts
Gender: Country:
Re: Rep. Peter King to conduct hearings on threat of Islam
Robert Tulip wrote:
DWill wrote:
There's another kind of fight [with Islamists] though, and that's for the hearts and minds of their co-religionists. That's the really important one to win for our long-term security.
This goes back to the reason for the rise of Islam in the first place. Christianity corrupted the hearts and minds of Europe so badly with all its lies that Christians could not even see the depth of their error. Islam originally represented a return to pure faith in God. Christian nations will never win the hearts and minds of Muslims until Christians look hard in the mirror and confess the faults of Christianity. Atheism has made a start on this process, but it has much further to go. The key missing step in the atheist debate is the need to recognise the psychological need for religion, and to satisfy this general human need in a rational way. Islam will continue to grow until a scientific religion emerges that can compel conversion by pure reason. The West has no superior coherent doctrine to offer to Muslims as yet. The superiority of western ideas remains an incoherent mess from the Islamic perspective. Muslims do not want science and technology if these come with a moral vacuum.
Robert Wright doesn't go along with this view of how Islam evolved. Of course, he doesn't go along with an "intellectualist" (his word) view of why religion evolves in the first place. For him, it's the facts on the ground that account for the modifications of previous religion, and it was no different with Mohammed, who originally seems to have flirted with Christianity. The exact reason Wright gives for the turn away from Christianity I can't remember, but rest assured it had to do with affairs of state rather than belief. Had Christianity really had enough time to "corrupt" Europe, anyway, by the time of Mohammed, and would Mohammed have cared about this even if true?
I don't get the sense that, these days, radical Muslims' feud is with Christianity at all, or with the West as comprising Christian nations. What they want us to confess or repent is more of a political nature. True, Muslims see the West as degenerate, but if we were actually biblically pure they'd have more respect for us. Their ethic is way closer to the Old Testament than that of even our fundamentalist Christians.
Pure reason and religion can't inhabit the same sphere, right?
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 3223 Location: Canberra
Thanks: 819 Thanked: 817 times in 614 posts
Gender: Country:
Re: Rep. Peter King to conduct hearings on threat of Islam
Quote:
Robert Wright doesn't go along with this view of how Islam evolved.
I don’t see any contradiction between what I have written and Wright’s views in The Evolution of God, just a difference of emphasis. My point was that the evolution of Christianity as a putative monotheistic world faith was well established by the time of Mohammed, including in what was to become the Muslim heartlands. However, there was a basic disconnect between Christian claims and Christian reality, which was in fact a screen for European imperialism. So the economics drove the ideation. The discomfort with Christianity must have been growing tectonically for quite some time, because Mohammed was like the spark that lit a wildfire. Clearly, culture had evolved to the point that a universal faith was politically necessary. Christianity sought to provide this faith, but its economic grounding in Rome and Constantinople meant that Muslim acceptance of Christianity basically meant rule by Europe.
Quote:
Of course, he doesn't go along with an "intellectualist" (his word) view of why religion evolves in the first place. For him, it's the facts on the ground that account for the modifications of previous religion, and it was no different with Mohammed, who originally seems to have flirted with Christianity. The exact reason Wright gives for the turn away from Christianity I can't remember, but rest assured it had to do with affairs of state rather than belief. Had Christianity really had enough time to "corrupt" Europe, anyway, by the time of Mohammed, and would Mohammed have cared about this even if true?
The Christian idea of the trinity is seen as basically corrupt in Islam. The idea that the God of the universe could be incarnate in a single man is logically ridiculous, so Islam demoted Christ to the status of prophet rather than messiah. I think the point here is that ideas do have influence, and we cannot take a Marxist line that ideas are mere superstructure on an economic base. Ideas govern behaviour and shape the base.
Quote:
I don't get the sense that, these days, radical Muslims' feud is with Christianity at all, or with the West as comprising Christian nations. What they want us to confess or repent is more of a political nature. True, Muslims see the West as degenerate, but if we were actually biblically pure they'd have more respect for us. Their ethic is way closer to the Old Testament than that of even our fundamentalist Christians.
I think the issue is that culturally, the West remains Christian. Even Western liberalism has Christian roots. I am not sufficiently familiar with Islamic teachings to be definitive here, but my impression is that Christian idolatry of the blessed Virgin Mary etc is seen in Islam as a token of tribal loyalty, not of faith in God, so they view the entire miraculous framework of Christianity with intense political suspicion. Christian dogma has blinded the West to its own failings.
Quote:
Pure reason and religion can't inhabit the same sphere, right?
Why ever not? If true religion is a rebinding to the cosmos, then it can be entirely rational. Indeed, to be ethical religion must be rational, as a bearing witness to truth. Religion does not require the supernatural.
Joined: Nov 2010 Posts: 798 Images: 1 Location: Maine
Thanks: 45 Thanked: 173 times in 128 posts
Gender: Country:
Re: Rep. Peter King to conduct hearings on threat of Islam
Surfing last night on t.v. I came across an interview with Spitzer and a Muslim man. The man seemed very well informed and was trying to express an observation/viewpoint/insight that Spitzer kept interrupting him in making to reflect Spitzers opinion of the statement. What in general I got from this interview was that the Muslim man, from attendance at mosques, relationships with other Muslims, knowledge of happenings in Indonesia and other parts of the world where Muslim is dominant; is that we do have something to be concerned about here. The man was quoting statistics of 20 - 30% of the Muslim population. It is this figure that Spitzer demanded he restrict only to other societies. Not our own.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
Love to talk about books but don't have time for our book discussion forums? For casual book talk join us on Facebook.
Support BookTalk.org
BookTalk.org is being upgraded to a totally new design. This upgrade is expensive. Any support would be VERY helpful! See who supports us.
Make a donation
PEOPLE PAYING FOR OUR UPGRADE:
• afv - $10 May
• LevV - $50 March
• Dexter - $10 March
• supernova38 - $25 March
• Oblivion - $20 March
• jheimlich - $20 February
• Robert Tulip - $50 February
• giselle - $50 January
Children here need worming
regularly, and I think I
need to buy more worming
tablets, so while my friends
sit on the beach, I have to
catch bush taxis up to the… more
The children have a long way
to walk to the nearest primary
school. At the moment they are
in temporary accommodation,
with volunteer teachers. There
is community land available,
a… more
The price of The 12th Disciple
has been updated to $3.99 for
Kindle readers. The book is
still available for free to
borrow for Amazon Prime
members. To be
competitive, and s… more
The 12th Disciple has been
reviewed by two different
people on Amazon. They
purchased the Kindle edition;
one in the US, one in the
UK. One review was
5-stars (US) and the oth… more
I'd like to say I've
been reading Harry Potter
since the day the world renown
series appeared on the
scene. Unfortunately,
the truth is I began reading
Harry Potter… more
Easter teaches many of us the
importance of redemption and
resurrection. Regardless of
what faith people follow, the
story of Jesus Christ has been
told in many languages in many
c… more
Our Book Talk will begin on
Wednesday, May 2nd. I look
forward to hearing about your
learning and classroom
experiences with Number Talks
as it all unfolds...
NONOPPOSITIONAL NONVIOLENCE
“The minute you conquer the
fear of death, at that moment
you are free. I submit to you
that if a man hasnÂ’t
discovered something that he
will die f… more
Yesterday, when I went to feed
Jeni the donkey, I noticed
swarms of bees entering
EbrimaÂ’s house through the
cracks in the door. We both
had a look, but he didnÂ’t
open his door… more
Whether you want to implement
number talks but are unsure of
how to begin or have
experience but want more
guidance in crafting
purposeful problems, this
dynamic multimedia resourc… more
Do you feel entitled? For
years I have listened to and,
in some instances, complained
that some people in America
feel entitled. For years I
have watched as these people
are portra… more
On Fat Tuesday and Ash
Wednesday of 2012, The 12th
Disciple was free to Kindle
users on both days. In all,
about 550 worldwide Kindle
users downloaded a copy of the
book.
‘Sacred Are the Brave’ a
collection of short stories
about the nonviolent
revolutions 1986-1989 is now
available in Kindle. Each of
the nine stories has
characters who are just
… more
The Weekend TrippersÂ’ is the
true story of Rfn Ted Taylor
and his part in the heroic
last stand in Calais May 1940.
The Weekend Trippers is based
on TedÂ’s diaries written at
the… more
Tell your friends when to meet you in the BookTalk.org Chat Room.
If you enjoy business bestsellers and would like to expand your business knowledge check out the quality book summaries offered by the world's leading book summary company.
BookTalk.org is a free book discussion group or online reading group or book club. We read and talk about both fiction and non-fiction books as a group. We host live author chats where booktalk members can interact with and interview authors. We give away free books to our members in book giveaway contests. Our booktalks are open to everybody who enjoys talking about books. Our book forums include book reviews, author interviews and book resources for readers and book lovers. Discussing books is our passion. We're a literature forum, or reading forum. Register a free book club account today! Suggest nonfiction and fiction books. Authors and publishers are welcome to advertise their books or ask for an author chat or author interview.
Tweet This Topic
