Reasons 31 - 40

Chris OConnor · Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:34 pm

Reasons 31 - 40

Please use this thread for discussing Reasons 31 - 40:

31. Intelligent design proves my god is real.

32. Millions of people can't be wrong about my religion.

33. Miracles prove my god is real.

34. Religion is beautiful.

35. Some very smart people believe in my god.

36. Ancient prophecies prove my god exists.

37. No one has ever disproved the existence of my god.

38. People have gone to heaven and returned.

39. Religion brings people together.

40. My god inspires people.

Penelope · Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:11 pm

31. Intelligent design proves my god is real.

The design doesn't always seem that intelligent to me.

32. Millions of people can't be wrong about my religion.

Millions of people can't possibly agree about what constitues religion. Two people can't even agree entirely....

33. Miracles prove my god is real.

Depends how you define a miracle. An empty chrysalis which becomes a butterfly....is delightful. Doesn't prove God is real......but makes it seem very likely to me....but not to you. So What?

34. Religion is beautiful.

Religion can be very ugly indeed. Truth is beautiful.

35. Some very smart people believe in my god.

No, only I know about my soul.....but plenty of people approach it the way I do.....but they aren't particularly smart.....little children before they are 'taught' how to look at God as separate.....seem to approach it the way I do. As often, do people of naturally low intellect.

36. Ancient prophecies prove my god exists.

I haven't seen any ancient prophecies that make any sense. Even history is, sometimes, warped to fit what the narator wants you to hear.

37. No one has ever disproved the existence of my god.

No one ever has 'proved' it either way.

38. People have gone to heaven and returned.

There is no such place as heaven......there is just a state of mind/soul.

39. Religion brings people together.

Religion separates people. Because different people have different perceptions about what is important. It is OK to be separate. It is when we all pretend to be nodding in agreement that the trouble begins.

40. My god inspires people.

The god in people does inspire them....artists, writers, musicians....
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ginof · Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:24 pm

I think I've said this elsewhere, but I still think he's missing out on the best reason that intelligent design is useless: Suppose it's true: how does it in any way enhance the predictive value of the theory? It doesn't. Because you don't know gods will and therefore your knowledge of god does not help you make conclusions any better than the science alone.

ginof · Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:30 pm

p233 - Harrison makes the claim that the pattern we see where there are many believers of many different religions is what we would see where there is no god buy people find religion via indoctrination.

Unfortunately, I think this is also the pattern we would see where there is a true god(s) but they are not revealed to us because of unknown reasons. I think we would also see this pattern if there was a true god that gave us free will and we had a lot of religious indoctrination.

Harrison's implied argument is that if there was one true god(s), then we would all become believers in that religion because it would be 'superior' in some way. I don't think this assertion is true as it would depend on the amount of information the god(s) decided to share with us.

ginof · Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:37 pm

p238 - i don't think I can take his argument seriously. Who needs a miracle more than an atheist? Please! Any believer will tell you that you need faith to get a miracle. By this logic an atheist will never get a miracle!

p238 - if you want to find out what its like to be a faith healer from the 'inside', you need to watch Marjoe, the 1972 movie about a man who was raised as to be a 5 year old faith healer and makes a documentary about his 'final run' on the faith circuit in his 20's. It's his final run because after the documentary comes out, it's obvious that no one is going to give him money to 'heal' anymore! It's funny, sad, and scary. Available on netflix.

ginof · Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:43 pm

p249 - his conversation with Goodall is very interesting. What I'm sorry to hear is that although he wonders if Goodall apply the same rigorous thinking about religion that she did to her field work, it's amazing that he didn't ask her. It's really kind of a shame. I speculate that it wasn't appropriate to do so in the course of the conversation that he had with her which was about a different topic.

the last two paragraphs are the meat of the chapter to me. Reality really is what it is. It doesn't matter who knows it and who does not.

ginof · Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:48 pm

p253 -


	Quote: How many more centuries must pass before believers start to doubt?

This really is amazing isn't it. I think it speaks to the ignorance about religion that many believers have. They don't look at it over the course of time other than that it has existed. And of course, the mistakes that the religion makes are not taught to the young. But anything that might be construed as correct is taught as proof. Crazy.

p261


	Quote: why would a god only want the gullible to believe?

Mmmm.... that is a very, very good question. Unless of course you were a huxter selling snake oil. :roll:

ginof · Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:54 pm

p278 - Harrison discusses how someone with a bit of charisma and confidence can say that 'god' wants those people over there killed and it can happen. As long as those listening have enough faith.

But what motivates this? History tells us that Harrison's point is true. However, I wonder if it is just faith. Perhaps other prejudices, greed and other factors are the real drivers and religion just provides a cover. Of course, this does not take away from his argument, but I was just wondering what others thought. Sometime religion alone is enough (suicide bomber), but I bet this is not the usual reason/

Frank 013 · Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:12 am

Ginof,

Recent history shows us that religious differences are the only ones required for such action to occur. There are no doubt other influences as well and each person justifies their involvement one way or the other, be it religious or selfish. But in many cases religion has been the primary motivator.

The recent violence in Palestine (Jews VS Muslims), Northern Ireland (Protestant VS Catholic), Kashmir (Muslims VS Hindus), Sudan (Muslims VS Christians and Animists), Nigeria (Muslims VS Christians), Sri Lanka (Sinhalese Buddhists VS Tamil Hindus), Indonesia (Muslims VS Timorese Christians) In these places religion has been the explicit cause of literally millions of deaths in the last two decades alone and are merely a few cases of point.

I think it would be self evident that ordinary people cannot be moved to burn genial old scholars alive for blaspheming the Koran; or celebrate the violent deaths of their children unless they believe some improbable things about the nature of the universe.

In most of these cases the only difference between to warring factions has been one of religion. In some cases religious ideals such as reclaiming holy land have been largely involved or perceived insults due to religious beliefs.

Religion is a real threat to our continued existence of our species... one day soon it will be possible for a single man to kill millions, if that man believes that his death brings him martyrdom and eternal bliss for killing as many infidels as possible... gods help us!

Later

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