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Mr. Pessimistic 
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 Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:53 am Post subject: Put a Little Science in Your Life
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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/01/opinion/01greene.html?_r=1&ex=121298 4000&en=d1bd4cd7cfefa238&ei=5070&emc=eta1&oref=slogin
by Brian Greene
Here is page one of the article:
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A COUPLE of years ago I received a letter from an American soldier in Iraq. The letter began by saying that, as we’ve all become painfully aware, serving on the front lines is physically exhausting and emotionally debilitating. But the reason for his writing was to tell me that in that hostile and lonely environment, a book I’d written had become a kind of lifeline. As the book is about science — one that traces physicists’ search for nature’s deepest laws — the soldier’s letter might strike you as, well, odd.
But it’s not. Rather, it speaks to the powerful role science can play in giving life context and meaning. At the same time, the soldier’s letter emphasized something I’ve increasingly come to believe: our educational system fails to teach science in a way that allows students to integrate it into their lives.
Allow me a moment to explain.
When we consider the ubiquity of cellphones, iPods, personal computers and the Internet, it’s easy to see how science (and the technology to which it leads) is woven into the fabric of our day-to-day activities. When we benefit from CT scanners, M.R.I. devices, pacemakers and arterial stents, we can immediately appreciate how science affects the quality of our lives. When we assess the state of the world, and identify looming challenges like climate change, global pandemics, security threats and diminishing resources, we don’t hesitate in turning to science to gauge the problems and find solutions.
And when we look at the wealth of opportunities hovering on the horizon — stem cells, genomic sequencing, personalized medicine, longevity research, nanoscience, brain-machine interface, quantum computers, space technology — we realize how crucial it is to cultivate a general public that can engage with scientific issues; there’s simply no other way that as a society we will be prepared to make informed decisions on a range of issues that will shape the future.
These are the standard — and enormously important — reasons many would give in explaining why science matters.
But here’s the thing. The reason science really matters runs deeper still. Science is a way of life. Science is a perspective. Science is the process that takes us from confusion to understanding in a manner that’s precise, predictive and reliable — a transformation, for those lucky enough to experience it, that is empowering and emotional. To be able to think through and grasp explanations — for everything from why the sky is blue to how life formed on earth — not because they are declared dogma but rather because they reveal patterns confirmed by experiment and observation, is one of the most precious of human experiences.
As a practicing scientist, I know this from my own work and study. But I also know that you don’t have to be a scientist for science to be transformative. I’ve seen children’s eyes light up as I’ve told them about black holes and the Big Bang. I’ve spoken with high school dropouts who’ve stumbled on popular science books about the human genome project, and then returned to school with newfound purpose. And in that letter from Iraq, the soldier told me how learning about relativity and quantum physics in the dusty and dangerous environs of greater Baghdad kept him going because it revealed a deeper reality of which we’re all a part.
It’s striking that science is still widely viewed as merely a subject one studies in the classroom or an isolated body of largely esoteric knowledge that sometimes shows up in the “real” world in the form of technological or medical advances. In reality, science is a language of hope and inspiration, providing discoveries that fire the imagination and instill a sense of connection to our lives and our world.
If science isn’t your strong suit — and for many it’s not — this side of science is something you may have rarely if ever experienced. I’ve spoken with so many people over the years whose encounters with science in school left them thinking of it as cold, distant and intimidating. They happily use the innovations that science makes possible, but feel that the science itself is just not relevant to their lives. What a shame.
Like a life without music, art or literature, a life without science is bereft of something that gives experience a rich and otherwise inaccessible dimension.
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This article explains why I find science more inspiring than any religion.
Mr. P. |
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Penelope
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject:
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Mr P. you quoted Brian Greene:-
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| Like a life without music, art or literature, a life without science is bereft of something that gives experience a rich and otherwise inaccessible dimension. |
It is about 'Balance' - we need music, art and literature......that is part of our spirituality.....
We need science....of course we do.....because we 'have foot in both worlds'.....we are corporal beings....we are in this world and trying to understand it........
But, my argument is that we are not 'just' corporal beings.....we are also spiritual.....it seems that this is the crucial argument.........
One without the other is sterile, stagnant and without hope......
We cannot be so 'heavenly' minded that we are no 'earthly' good.....
but I fear that if we become too 'scientific' we will lose sight of our souls. |
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Mr. Pessimistic
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:35 pm Post subject:
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| Penelope wrote: |
Mr P. you quoted Brian Greene:-
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| Like a life without music, art or literature, a life without science is bereft of something that gives experience a rich and otherwise inaccessible dimension. |
It is about 'Balance' - we need music, art and literature......that is part of our spirituality.....
We need science....of course we do.....because we 'have foot in both worlds'.....we are corporal beings....we are in this world and trying to understand it........
But, my argument is that we are not 'just' corporal beings.....we are also spiritual.....it seems that this is the crucial argument.........
One without the other is sterile, stagnant and without hope......
We cannot be so 'heavenly' minded that we are no 'earthly' good.....
but I fear that if we become too 'scientific' we will lose sight of our souls. |
And I just do not agree with all that, save that we must have balance in our pursuits...but the article states this too...with no mention of a spiritual factor.
Mr. P. |
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Penelope
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:52 pm Post subject:
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Well Mr. P......
I think you are seeing 'spirituality' as a threat.......
It is not something to be agreed with or disagreed with....it is just there...A humble acceptance...is how I deal with it......
It seems obvious that we are not perceiving the same things on the spiritual level......and (although I try) I cannot 'comprehend' a lot of the scientific teachings.....maybe 'God' sends compensation!!!! |
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Penelope
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject:
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Chris, Mr. P., (and our lovely Frank, wherever you are)...Theomantic...
This is how I feel......
Penelope....you have failed - FAILED......to communicate.....Go to Jail....Go directly to Jail.....do not pass GO.....do not collect $200.
Do not collect 200 dollars!!!!
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Mr. Pessimistic
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject:
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| Penelope wrote: |
Well Mr. P......
I think you are seeing 'spirituality' as a threat.......
It is not something to be agreed with or disagreed with....it is just there...A humble acceptance...is how I deal with it......
It seems obvious that we are not perceiving the same things on the spiritual level......and (although I try) I cannot 'comprehend' a lot of the scientific teachings.....maybe 'God' sends compensation!!!! |
No...it is not a threat...it is just make believe that people need to cling to. It is pretty simple from my view. |
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Penelope
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:03 pm Post subject:
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So....you are not going to let me out on bail......
You bounders...you rotters....you cads.....
Twist your waxed mustaches.......and 'play' the villain......
You are not 'admitting' to giving me an inch.......Shame on you!!!  |
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Mr. Pessimistic
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject:
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| Penelope wrote: |
Chris, Mr. P., (and our lovely Frank, wherever you are)...Theomantic...
This is how I feel......
Penelope....you have failed - FAILED......to communicate.....Go to Jail....Go directly to Jail.....do not pass GO.....do not collect $200.
Do not collect 200 dollars!!!!
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Sounds like you are being more harsh on yourself and personalizing what we say rather than us labeling you a failure. I do not see anyone singling you out here. We are just stating what we feel and why we feel it. Just because that may hit close to what you believe does not make us the evil empire.
Mr. P. |
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Penelope
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject:
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Mr P said:
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| Sounds like you are being more harsh on yourself and personalizing what we say rather than us labeling you a failure. I do not see anyone singling you out here. We are just stating what we feel and why we feel it. Just because that may hit close to what you believe does not make us the evil empire. |
I AM a person!!!!!! I DO personalise what you say.....
But I don't say you are labelling me a failure....
I label myself a failure.....but only in the fact that I don't appear to have been able to communicate.....
I do not call you 'the evil empire' and I don't even think of you as the evil empire......you are not evil.....you are caring!!!
But don't don't talk to me about 'we' as in:-
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| We are just stating what we feel and why we feel it. |
Your are Chris, Mr.P and etc.....and your thoughts are your own.
Whatever I have posted has been on my own behalf.....and I refuse to be labelled....and be lumped along with the Religious Left or the Religious Right.....The Radicals, The Evangelicals......or any of the 'isms'.
Even if you want to be labelled.....I won't label you.....
You are individuals......THIS IS PERSONAL......it has to be...  |
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Mr. Pessimistic
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:05 pm Post subject:
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| Penelope wrote: |
Mr P said:
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| Sounds like you are being more harsh on yourself and personalizing what we say rather than us labeling you a failure. I do not see anyone singling you out here. We are just stating what we feel and why we feel it. Just because that may hit close to what you believe does not make us the evil empire. |
I AM a person!!!!!! I DO personalise what you say.....
But I don't say you are labelling me a failure....
I label myself a failure.....but only in the fact that I don't appear to have been able to communicate.....
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You are communicating just fine though...it is what you are saying, and not just YOU but the whole argument for faith/spirituality that is failing. We just dont accept it. It is not for us. |
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Penelope
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject:
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Mr. P Said:-
We just dont accept it. It is not for us. |
You are using the 'Royal We' again.....
How do you define - Free Thinking???????
Free Thinking.....is NOT about - We and Us....it is about I and Me.....it is personal....
Conversation is personal....between two people......
Indoctrination and Mental Conditioning.....happen to 'The Crowd'.
Sorry, but I'm not having any of that 'we' business!!!!! From you lot....or from that lot...... |
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Chris OConnor
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject:
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| But, my argument is that we are not 'just' corporal beings.....we are also spiritual.....it seems that this is the crucial argument......... |
You haven't made an argument. Stating that we are spiritual beings is a conclusion. Now show us your premises. |
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Penelope
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject:
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Chris - I have just answered your post to the best of my ability on the 'Moron' thread......
I guess my premise......is myself......
I don't know whether I was born with a 'fey' spiritual nature....or whether my life experiences made me this way.......
But I sure as hell haven't been indoctrinated!!!!!
Can we stop this discussion now......because I have no 'We' and 'Us' and I am just feeling more and more isolated......not good.
You can number me with the Morons......not of exceptional intelligence at all. |
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Chris OConnor
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:40 pm Post subject:
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Yes, we can drop it. Making you feel isolated wasn't my intention so I apologize. I guess I was hoping for you to realize that your reason for believing in certain things isn't very reasonable at all. Truthfully, I was hoping for too much. Very few theists are impacted by the introduction of logic into the debate.
So you don't like that isolated feeling much?
Imagine how us atheists feel. We're in an extreme minority and are constantly dealing with being judged, shunned and isolated. It sucks. The only thing that helps me keep my head clear and deal with the crappy way most theists treat me is that I'm bright enough to look around at who my fellow atheists are. I'm in really good company.
You are feeling isolated only because this conversation involves so few people. I venture to say that Mr. Pessimistic and I would be the ones feeling isolated if just a few more BookTalk members joined in the discussion. Again, we're in the minority and I do know how it feels to be ganged up on. We weren't trying to do that to you so please forgive me...and Nick. |
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Robert Tulip
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:06 am Post subject:
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| Chris OConnor wrote: |
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| But, my argument is that we are not 'just' corporal beings.....we are also spiritual.....it seems that this is the crucial argument......... |
You haven't made an argument. Stating that we are spiritual beings is a conclusion. Now show us your premises. |
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