Occupy Wallstreet.

Chris OConnor · Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:52 pm

A few details that should be included.

1. The police officers went up to each and every seated protester and explained that force would be used if they didn't get up. They asked each person if they understood. I don't agree with the use of pepper spray but I do think the people should have been removed with physical force.

2. The Twilight Camp was for a few days and not a few months.

3. The Twilight Campers were not flipping off the cops, swearing at them, insulting them, taunting them and generally inciting a riot.

4. The Twilight Camp was actually ordered taken down. Each person at the camp was given a wrist band and ordered to leave. The wrist band earned them their place in line on opening day. Oh, and when law enforcement told them to leave they left. That is how civilized people behave. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31749_162-5 ... -premiere/

5. The Twilight Camp wasn't plagued with violence, drugs, homeless people, rapes and the threat of a riot breaking out at any given moment.

6. The Twilight Camp wasn't costing local businesses money because they weren't scaring away taxpayers who normally would shop at local stores and businesses. The Occupy Wall Street and all the other camps were avoided by law abiding citizens out of fear.

I could go on and on. I am perpetually shocked at how some liberals defend just about any attack on capitalism, government, law, order, progress and even freedom of speech. Liberals claim to be for freedom but they are the first to turn to violence and threats and aggression.These people at these "Occupy" camps are anarchists, socialists and even worse, totally abusive to just about all forms of authority. It sickens me to see them giving cops the middle finger, screaming profanities at them, and generally treating these people like shit simply because the cops are the front line of defense that civilized society has against riots and unruly mobs. Cops risk their lives every day to keep society safe and these jackasses say thanks by chanting "shame, shame, shame" at them. I feel extremely bad for these police officers. Nobody deserves that sort of abuse.

johnson1010 · Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:23 pm


	Quote: 1. The police officers went up to each and every seated protester and explained that force would be used if they didn't get up. They asked each person if they understood. I don't agree with the use of pepper spray but I do think the people should have been removed with physical force.

Hey Chris, long time no disagreements! haha.

I don't have a problem with people being removed for being unruly, or even for peaceable sit-in style protest when it is disruptive.

I do have a problem with so-called non-lethal deterrents. That isn't to say they should take out the shot guns. But non-lethal seems to make people trigger happy. Even though "non-lethal" should really be called "less lethal". Rubber bullets, mace, tasers are all un-necessary in a situation like that.

If they were causing a problem they should have been arrested, but casually spraying a shit-ton of pepper spray in people's faces when their biggest form of resistance is likely to be "go boneless" is unacceptable.

Force is OK. Physically grab offending hippie and move into paddy mobile. Violence is not. Pepper spray may not seem violent. It's just a guy casually strolling down the street pushing a button then fluffy mist gets on people. No biggie, right? I would rather take a punch than get hit with a spray coating of pepper spray to the face.

Science lets you do everything better and more efficiently. including inflicting pain on others. You don't have to work hard to push a button, but it causes disproportionate misery and suffering.

And over what? These are kids trying to make an impact on policy. Trying to fight the good fight against a system that has trouble hearing them because they don't have enough money to wave in front of a politician's face. They have their opportunity to raise a hand here and say they don't want our politicians participating in the fiscal abuse of our country.

Yes, they expected police. They probably even expected to be pepper-sprayed. That's what protesting usually gets you in this country. (or in some cases, you get a news network to pimp your every move on the air 24-7, machine-gun toting nut-jobs and all).

I expected nothing less from this situation either. Of course hippies are going to get rounded up by "da man". That's what da man does with hippies. I don't have a problem with that. I just think it is worth noting that people who protest the mugging of our country seem to get a much sharper reaction than those who did the mugging.

If we saw a guy grab an old lady's purse and punch her in the face, that guy would damn near get lynched. Yet you can grab all the little old lady's purses across the whole country and still ride a golden parachute into the sunset.

Who should we be mad at? Those guys who are disrupting the sidewalk to payless? Or the sons of bitches who stole our retirements?


	Quote: I could go on and on. I am perpetually shocked at how some liberals defend just about any attack on capitalism, government, law, order, progress and even freedom of speech. Liberals claim to be for freedom but they are the first to turn to violence and threats and aggression.

That doesn't sound right Chris. I am against the abuse of those things, such as private profit and public loss, unnecessary big-brother monitoring, or the exchange of real freedoms for percieved safety. I don't know where you are getting the law order progress and freedome of speach thing. You mean fern-sniffers who tie themselves to a tree so it won't get bull-dozed?

Yeah, those guys aren't helping anything. I'm with you on the progress one ( i think).

As far as violence and threats? Check into our buddies at the tea party.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/arc ... ess/69530/

How about a hysterical mob, including the politician?

http://www.coloradopols.com/diary/10092 ... ical-rally

That's a man with a machine gun at a rally. Threats of violence?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jackson-w ... 06255.html

This is a leading politician pulling the old "who will remove him from my sight?" Gag.

Chris OConnor · Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:09 pm

I'll respond later tonight but I agree with 95% of what you say.

Chris OConnor · Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:54 am

I agree that cops are too quick to spray pepper spray or shoot their tasers at people. These tools should only be used when absolutely necessary and it definitely wasn't necessary to spray those kids who were simply sitting on the ground. The cops could have easily just picked each one up one by one and moved them. The weren't resisting or any kind of threat. So we're in agreement on this.


	Quote: And over what? These are kids trying to make an impact on policy. Trying to fight the good fight against a system that has trouble hearing them because they don't have enough money to wave in front of a politician's face. They have their opportunity to raise a hand here and say they don't want our politicians participating in the fiscal abuse of our country.

Unless there is more to the story than what I saw in that video I am in agreement with you. If those kids were simply protesting in a non-threatening fashion then I'm in complete support of them.


	Quote: I just think it is worth noting that people who protest the mugging of our country seem to get a much sharper reaction than those who did the mugging.

I agree. But the way many of the Occupy people have been expressing themselves has been detrimental to their very legit cause. It is hard to hear a message that is intermingled with "Fuck the Police!" and "shame, shame, shame" and such vile and disgusting talk. There has to be a way the 99% can speak up in a civilized manner because I can assure you I wasn't able to listen to their message due to the manner in which they were delivering it.


	Quote: If we saw a guy grab an old lady's purse and punch her in the face, that guy would damn near get lynched. Yet you can grab all the little old lady's purses across the whole country and still ride a golden parachute into the sunset.

Well said.


	Quote: Who should we be mad at? Those guys who are disrupting the sidewalk to payless? Or the sons of bitches who stole our retirements?

If you have cancer AND a bloody nose which one are you going to address first? Sure the cancer is more important than the bloody nose, but the bloody nose is more urgent. The Occupiers forced civilized society to ignore the cancer and address the bloody nose because in the short term that blood was making a damn mess. So in answer to your question hell yes we need to clear the sidewalk to Payless before we work on the incredibly complex matter of saving the United States from total collapse. The Occupiers were causing chaos and chaos cannot be tolerated in a civilized country.

It all goes back to how the message is delivered. Aren't there some charismatic liberal community organizers out there who can step up and lead the disgruntled 99% to do something meaningful and powerful and lasting? Is screaming like animals right in the face of a cop the only thing that they could think of? That cop has a wife and small children at home and he is standing there with his damn heart beating a mile a minute not knowing if all hell is about to break loose. He doesn't know if the mob in front of him is going to suddenly spring forward and beat him to death. Is that right? Should cops have to deal with this sort of abuse? That $35,000 per year cop is not responsible for the woes of the masses. He is one of them but he needs his damn job. He cannot just say, "You know what. You unemployed hippies have a point. Rich people suck. I'm going to throw down my badge and join you. Fuck my job, wife and children and future." Of course not. The cop is one of us. And those idiots were and are abusing the heck out of them.

That is my major gripe. The Occupiers needed a tangible enemy and they picked law enforcement. This is a clear sign of ignorance and pure mob mentality. There are a bunch of followers out there and not enough true leaders. In today's world you can indeed be heard without violence and abuse of authority.

But here is what happened in my opinion. People in the US are watching the news every day and seeing the people in a half dozen middle eastern nations rising up and overthrowing their governments and/or dictators. These Lemmings and mindless followers got caught up in mob mentality. Sure there are thousands of miles of ocean between us and the protests in Libya, Syria and Egypt, but with TV and the Internet it is as if those uprisings are right next door. I really think we wouldn't have seen such chaos here if it had not been for opportunists who consciously or possibly unconsciously fed off the craziness overseas. I'd like to think in the USA we can solve our problems without a damn civil war. And a civil war seems to be what many of the people occupying this or that really want.

I hope all this made sense. I took a bunch of Benadryl and am falling asleep as I type. I have a nasty case of poison ivy.

Oh, and the idiot with the machine gun at the rally is a good example. But there seem to be examples of people using threats of violence on both sides. During the last presidential election the Black Panthers had armed guards at several polling places intimidating the heck out of anyone not there to vote for Obama.

I'll watch the video you posted tomorrow.

Interbane · Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:08 am


	Quote: If you have cancer AND a bloody nose which one are you going to address first? Sure the cancer is more important than the bloody nose, but the bloody nose is more urgent. The Occupiers forced civilized society to ignore the cancer and address the bloody nose because in the short term that blood was making a damn mess.

The bloody nose is the symptom causing America to be aware of the cancer. The occupy movement has succeeded in increasing awareness.


	Quote: But here is what happened in my opinion. People in the US are watching the news every day and seeing the people in a half dozen middle eastern nations rising up and overthrowing their governments and/or dictators.

I've been screaming about inequality for years, look through my old posts. This is because I've been burnt badly by others due to lack of regulation. I can expand and explain in detail. Beating my head against the wall for years, and finally the American public is starting to see through the propaganda and speak out. The fear and ridicule the police officers have aimed at them is wrong, but is nothing compared to the wrongs that the Occupy protestors are trying to illuminate. How can you not see the problems that directly result in the symptom of inequality? Perhaps some people were motivated by the Middle East protests, but they are misguided and miss the point. No problem needs to be invented, the problems are real.

In order to be heard, I'd cheer for the protestors to stay put wherever they are at. The loser hippies can go home, most are little more than bandwagoners who parrot the message without understanding all the details. On the other hand, if everyone who didn't understand the details went home, there would be too few people left.

I've said for the last few years to Erin that if something doesn't change in this country I'm moving to Canada. We have broken wings and we're falling fast, and it's the Occupy protestors who are correctly focused on the problem.

Dave The Marine · Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:33 pm

I am not a cop, but if I was my main mission everyday would be to return home safely at the end of my shift. As a citizen I want the policemans protection as I go about my business and even when I excersize my rights to protest (if I so desire). That said in my mind (and I hope in the officers mind) is I want us both to safely return home at the end of the day, so I wouldn't do anything to provoke him or attack him, I wouldn't call him names or spit at him, and if they told us to disperse I would (I would also get a lawyer to take the matter to court). The police do a dangerous thankless job (for the most part) they should not be treated with disrespect, if you have a problem with them it should be addressed in the proper manner and not on the street. I personnally think that most of the police have showed restraint in dealing with the current protest, even though some are trying to provoke a "Kent State" like response. Those who think that Kent State changed things they are right, but not in the way they think, show me a big anti war protest against Vietnam after that.,... there really wasn't any, that ended it, the majority of the people had enough. As an aside my family doctors son was attending Kent State at the time, on the first day of trouble which was a few days before the infamous incident (the day they burned down the ROTC building) the doctor called his son up and told him to get his a** home if he wasn't going to be getting an education there was work to be done at the house and on the farm (the doctor was a rather interesting character to say the least).

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