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Christ in Egypt: The Virgin Isis-Mery 
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Post Re: Christ in Egypt: The Virgin Isis-Mery
The comments by D M Murdock. Pg. 68, your book- "The Pyramid texts contained another "older version" of Osiris's death." From Budge, book of the dead, "Some of the texts misunderstood were ancient, 4500 years ago." How old actually do you feel that the story of Osiris is, which is the ancient religion of egypt.? Myself, I believe the sphinx is 10K years old. You know that Egypt never did anything without a reason. The sphinx is a marker for leo, 10 K years ago. The religion is then older than that. Why the older version above is important is the religion is confounded because it covers a long period of time. The second step of the process that the religion is based on is a hard step, because there is no explanation as to how to do. The above statement in your book, Osiris was drowned in the "Water of the Underworld" is tied to the original Story, because it describes how the matter has to be reduced to a base. I realize you don't understand this, but to me it is very important. Now, in 50 pages of your book, I can connect 50 facts to the process, and to Jesus as a man, and to the ancient process that the religion is based on. It is why my interest in your book. Also, in the first few pages of your book, you link the two eyes to the sun and moon. This is from the Creation and is where the "Waters Above" in Genesis is from. You also in describing the light of the sun, one aspect, "Perfection! This is the good of the light in Genesis. This perfection is extreemly important to know. Matter is what it is about. Matter can be perfected by the sunlight. Where you link the Pharoah to divinity, Jesus as you know is also linked to divinity. This is because they were fed the perfect Matter. This is how they were anoited. You have said, "many christos' down through the ages, all because of the same reason. Many, the alchemists though didn't believe it made you a christ or christos. Jesus did! Those around him also believed. You are absolutly right that jesus is tied to the myth. But, you also said in several places, 'To talk about the Mysteries was to be put to death,." I can reference this if you like. The alchemists were the same way. Now Jesus had an attitude, he talked about it and it so states in the Gnostics, "Jesus was killed, hung on a Tree because he burnt his bread." That means he was talking about the mysteries and so he was put to death. When you understand it, it is different than Osiris. Osiris was killed because he is about the matter that was perfected ( a natural Process). Jesus was killed for talking about something he shouldn't have. Osiris goes through the stages as a copy of the process to perfect matter. Osiris is resurrected a God which is the same as the Perfect matter. Jesus is resurrected as a copy of Osiris. What it is all about, the process was found that Perfected matter. The matter to the ancients convinced them of God in nature, and connected to the sun. This matter perfected what it touched (thier belief). This process was then turned into the religion of osiris. Later it was turned into christianity. The story itself is more rediculous than the myth, because it shows and explanins where everything comes from.

You also have linked Osiris to Sirius. The Dog star is linked to Sirius. The three stars of Orions Belt also, and are linked to the Wisdom of Sophia, and or to the Three Wise men. The wisdom or wise has to do with the knowledge of the process, the same secretive information that the Philosophers you mentioned will not talk about on the fear of death. You see, the whole problem is this. Osiris is based on something, as Sir W. Budge stated in Cleopatras Needles (Introduction). Until that is explained, there will always be misinformation and misunderstanding and arguments about what it is all about. The only good thing about all this is, the explanation and the medicine which man will have again, but it is still a maybe! Ask yourself, what would it mean to man to know all of the Truth of the past?

I don't mean in any way to be disrespectful. I could only wish for your knowledge and ability. But to me you have replaced Massey, and he is a sort of hero of mine for what he has placed in books. Your the present Day Massey, if that is O k to say!

Al



Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:12 pm
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Post Re: Christ in Egypt: The Virgin Isis-Mery
I am just an ordinary freethinking member of the public who out of shear interest has spent most of her life trying to seek out the truth. For 12 years i was a baptised member of a Judeo Christian sect but it wasn't until in latter years, i read the late Zecharia Stchin's books, concerning the Ancient Astronaut theory. After that i felt 'awakened' to the truth as it made everything i had read in the Old and New Testament 'come to life' (it made total sense out of an otherwise bizarre set of stories. I totally 'get it' that the Virgin mother Mary is modelled upon ISIS-MERY. I totally get it that Jesus is based upon the story of HORUS. All stories, all loosely based upon older stories. However, going back much further in time to the days of Ancient Sumer, if the Ancient Astronaut theory is true and i believe that it is, then there were such things as DNA Cloning (you might call that 'a resurrection') and more importantly with reference to THIS topic 'Surrogate' mothers (you might call them 'Virgin mothers') way back, thousands of years ago. So although i totally get the whole 'Jesus is Egypt' thing, this still does not prove that Virgin birth is/was impossible, we know today that it is a fact.



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Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:57 am
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Post Re: Christ in Egypt: The Virgin Isis-Mery
Hi ThothsKat (Bast?), welcome, and thanks for joining the conversation.

Unfortunately, Sitchin has a reputation as being quite wacky. His ideas may be attractive as science myth, but not as science fact.

What we are doing here is subjecting all forms of fantasy to stringent analysis. A range of people have come along with various 'new mythologies', and I fear that Mr. Sitchin is another in this line. Where I find DM Murdock's analysis immensely valuable is that it is actually very difficult to find errors in her work, because she adheres strongly to rigorous scientific method. So all this prompts lively debate with other readings of Egyptian sources that conflict with science.

I hope you don't find my comments too harsh, as I would welcome it if you can defend your views in a convincing way. But if you wish to say that Murdock makes mistakes in her understanding of ancient Egypt, please be specific, and please try to illustrate your argument with evidence.

As to virgin birth, there is no way a male, who has a Y chromosome, can exist without a human father, so the Jesus story is just absurd. The story is allegory. Our discussion here has focused on what the allegory represents. The daily birth of the sun from the purity of night and dawn is a universal natural motif that readily lends itself to elaboration as myth. It is a simpler explanation than Sitchin's fanciful theories about aliens, which conflict with scientific evidence at numerous obvious points.



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Post Re: Christ in Egypt: The Virgin Isis-Mery
Mr Tulip, I don't possess any degrees in any kind of world literature, i'm just a freethinking mom. I totally get it, that Jesus is based upon the STORY of HORUS - as i said! You say - 'there is no way a male who has a Y chromosome, can exist without a human father, so the Jesus story is absurd.' Ok - who said the Jesus story was true? I didn't, it's a story based upon another story 'that of HORUS.' Yes, totally get that (unless of course Jesus/Horus was a hermaphrodite). But fanciful stories about Aliens? No way! That's one you'll have to converse with the military/government about. I recommend, just for a snack, before meatier evidence, that you take time out to watch: Out of the Blue - Military Disclosure Has Begun - National Press Club LIVE, Washington D_C, before you post me back your next comment. Or is it the book sales you're more worried about?



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Post Re: Christ in Egypt: The Virgin Isis-Mery
ThothsKat wrote:
who said the Jesus story was true? I didn't, it's a story based upon another story 'that of HORUS.' Yes, totally get that (unless of course Jesus/Horus was a hermaphrodite).
Hi ThothsKat, thanks. I was just trying to clarify your initial comments. You said "there were such things as ... 'Surrogate' mothers (you might call them 'Virgin mothers') way back, thousands of years ago. So although i totally get the whole 'Jesus is Egypt' thing, this still does not prove that Virgin birth is/was impossible, we know today that it is a fact."

This thread is about how we explain the Bible story of the virgin birth of Jesus Christ. So, if you say "we know today that [virgin birth] is a fact" it is reasonable to ask if you are saying Jesus may have been born of a virgin.
Quote:
But fanciful stories about Aliens? No way!
But you sing the praises of Sitchin, whose whole 'theory' is based on aliens. You said his "Ancient Astronaut theory ... made total sense."

Sorry if I am having trouble following your line of thought.


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Post Re: Christ in Egypt: The Virgin Isis-Mery
For what it's worth, here's an article by Acharya S debunking Z. Sitchin.

Who are the Anunnaki?

From Acharya's FAQ's: Does Acharya subscribe to the ancient astronaut theory?



Last edited by FTL99 on Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Post Re: Christ in Egypt: The Virgin Isis-Mery
Discussion on planets as gods continued at post96015.html#p96015


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Post Re: Christ in Egypt: The Virgin Isis-Mery
Nut/Neith/Hathor Comparisons

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hathor

Hathor had a complex relationship with Ra, in one myth she is his eye and considered his daughter but later, when Ra assumes the role of Horus with respect to Kingship, she is considered Ra's mother. She absorbed this role from another cow goddess 'Mht wrt' ("Great flood") who was the mother of Ra in a creation myth and carried him between her horns. As a mother she gave birth to Ra each morning on the eastern horizon and as wife she conceives through union with him each day.

Hathor, along with the goddess Nut, was associated with the Milky Way during the third millennium B.C. when, during the fall and spring equinoxes, it aligned over and touched the earth where the sun rose and fell. The four legs of the celestial cow represented Nut or Hathor could, in one account, be seen as the pillars on which the sky was supported with the stars on their bellies constituting the Milky Way on which the solar barque of Ra, representing the sun, sailed.

The Milky Way was seen as a waterway in the heavens, sailed upon by both the sun deity and the moon, leading the ancient Egyptians to describe it as The Nile in the Sky.

Another interpretation of the Milky Way was that it was the primal snake, Wadjet, the protector of Egypt who was closely associated with Hathor and other early deities among the various aspects of the great mother goddess, including Mut and Naunet.

AD: Here we have a clear Milky Way connection.


Goddess Nut http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nut_%28goddess%29

Mostly depicted in human form, Nut was also sometimes depicted in the form of a cow whose great body formed the sky and heavens, a sycamore tree, or as a giant sow, suckling many piglets (representing the stars).

A sacred symbol of Nut was the ladder, used by Osiris to enter her heavenly skies. This ladder-symbol was called “maqet” and was placed in tombs to protect the deceased, and to invoke the aid of the deity of the dead.

Nut is considered an enigma in the world of mythology because she is direct contrast to most other mythologies, which usually evolve into a sky father associated with an earth mother or Mother Nature.

Comment:

When looking at the Nut Goddess as a primordial (virgin) goddess, the enigma disappear when rightfully connecting her to the Milky Way Mytology and to the Story of Creation.

Otherwise it seem to me that comparisons between Neith and Nut - and between many other primeordial goddesses - easily can be made finding great similarities. Because they belong to the very same celestial object of the Milky Way which is closely connected to the Stories of Creation.

- It also seem to me that we have to take the astrotheological/mytological understanding a further step up to the Milky Way Sphere in order to grasp the mythological meaning of "virgin creator goddesses" in general.

Links:
http://native-science.net/MilkyWay.MotherGoddess.htm
native-science.net/Mythology.Light_Whit ... _Right.htm



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Post Re: Christ in Egypt: The Virgin Isis-Mery
Native, your post is essentially a copy/paste from here, which has already been addressed.

You already have a thread here: Milky Way Myths

So, please don't try to hi-jack the threads here attempting to turn them into another of your milky way threads, as this forum is about the books. That's why this forum is called "BookTalk." It is a forum that has discussions specifically about books. Have you read Christ in Egypt?

Write a book about milky way myths and then maybe you can have your own book discussion here.



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Post Re: Christ in Egypt: The Virgin Isis-Mery
True.


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Post Re: Christ in Egypt: The Virgin Isis-Mery
I am not "trying to hijacking this tread".

I´m just trying to give an overall perspective that maybe can clarify the mythological contexts and its cosmological implications and connections. And my latest post was a reply to a question if the goddess of Neith could be compared to Nut and other Milky Way goddesses.

- Of course one posts the most essential arguments several times - just like authors usually do all over in their books.

What is wrong with doing that in this tread? Is it just that I have alternative views and should be kept away because it is disturbing for the consensus thinking?

What is the very point of a “BookTalk” if not to discuss the contents of a book? Discuss the outlay and format?



Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:26 am
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Post Re: Christ in Egypt: The Virgin Isis-Mery
Native, have you read 'Christ in Egypt' or not?

What you are bring up here assuming we don't know anything about is old news to Acharya. She discusses the Hathor connection to the milky way in her first book, Christ Conspiracy, page 97 from 1999. Acharya simply doesn't spend any time on milky way myths because I don't think she sees it as relevant to her work. What milky way myths have found their way into Christianity that have been verified & confirmed by reputable scholars?

I think what you're doing on your website is important and I support it but, you've just got to clean it up and make sure the entire website is accurate. I already explained that to you before:

Quote:
"Native, I like your website but there are far too many blatantly obvious errors that must be changed. Please accept this as constructive criticism not any type of attack. You're simply not making any effort to verify your claims or substantiate them with credible evidence. Those who have experience in this field will see too many errors to be able to take your website seriously. You need to provide primary sources and scholar commentary on them saying that they are what you claim they are. You've got some things right but, there's way too much that is wrong and it ruins the whole website. You need to get rid of everything that's wrong and keep what's right. And where you're unsure you need to say that. You've got it all mixed together and that is unprofessional and unscholarly - linking to Wikipedia as a main source does not help your case..."

- Milky Way Myths


Post your website at this forum and ask for constructive criticism. They will tell you the same thing I did.
http://www.freeratio.org/forumdisplay.p ... 094e3&f=60

It looks like you may have tried to do what I mentioned above at your 'GREAT MOTHER GODDESS' link but, if you're going to use so much from Elaine Pagels you should probably ask her for permission or your website could be penalized and we wouldn't want it taken down due copy-right laws. Your 'LIGHT OR WHITE DEITIES' link still includes major errors trying to connect artifacts to the milky way that are simply false, such as the "Sun Carriage" of Trundholm, Denmark. Try to find a few highly respected and credentialed scholars that agree with you on that and the rest of your claims.

Quote:
"The Trundholm Sun Chariot is from the Bronze Age. It was found in a bog in 1902 in Denmark. In the danish Bronze Age mythology it was believed that the sun was carried over the sky on a carriage from noon to evening. At night the sun was escorted by a snake to the night ship that transported it until morning. A fish then escorted the sun to the morning ship that transported it until the horse took over again."
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Solvognen


Not a single mention of it having anything to do with any milky way myths here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trundholm_sun_chariot

Again, take all this as constructive criticism. We're on the same side but, you can't keep making connections where none exist or you will ruin your credibility and everyone else's you try to connect with like Acharya S. Don't mix facts and evidence with your own speculation and opinion. Everybody knows that is a big no-no.



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Post Re: Christ in Egypt: The Virgin Isis-Mery
@FTL99,

First: I don´t recall your user profile from any other Forums, but maybe you can be so kind to refresh my memory?

Secondly: Before going into further discussions, how important would you say that the concept of "Virgin Moon Goddesses" is in the assembled works of Acharya?

NB: Answers from anyone else on this Forum are of course also welcome.



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Post Re: Christ in Egypt: The Virgin Isis-Mery
Since you've avoided answering the question a few times now, is it fair to assume that you have not read 'Christ in Egypt'? What books of Acharya's have you actually read?

This thread is about the chapter in 'Christ in Egypt' entitled, "The Virgin Isis-Mery," which makes no mention of the milky way because it's not relevant to what she's doing in that book.

You have a thread at Freethought Nation titled 'Milky Way Myths' linked above and I'm the Admin and a mod there. I'd like to see you succeed and I'm just trying to help you out here but, you would be wise to finally listen to us and our many years of experience. We cannot support your website until you've cleaned it up and removed or at least separated the credible facts and evidence from the speculation and opinion. PLEASE remove what's false or inaccurate. You consistently make giant leaps of faith in your attempt to make connections where none exist. Then, you keep trying to force those issues on us, like your posts above as well as at the Freethought Nation forum, that you still don't realize are wrong. You've got to stop doing that.



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Post Re: Christ in Egypt: The Virgin Isis-Mery
@FTL99,

Regarding my website, we apparently have had this discussion before and my advice to you was briefly: Focus on the main message and discuss this only.
FTL99 wrote:
Since you've avoided answering the question a few times now, is it fair to assume that you have not read 'Christ in Egypt'? What books of Acharya's have you actually read?
Native wrote:
Secondly: Before going into further discussions, how important would you say that the concept of "Virgin Moon Goddesses" is in the assembled works of Acharya?

AD: Does this sentence suggest that I am avoiding or refusing answering your questions?

Quote:
This thread is about the chapter in 'Christ in Egypt' entitled, "The Virgin Isis-Mery," which makes no mention of the milky way because it's not relevant to what she's doing in that book.

AD: Non the less, you yourself linked to the "Christ Conspiracy" in order to tell me that the issue of the Milky Way Goddesses (Hathor as Milky Way Goddess/Mother Moon Goddess, later replaced by Isis, in this case) already was/is mentioned in this book.

Regarding the tread topic of "The Virgin Isis-Mery", it was/is very relevant for me to know some answers to how important the concept of "Virgin Moon Goddesses" is, as asked in the quotation above and I´m waiting for answers to this issue.

- I´m asking this question because I don´t understand why the clearly stated Milky Way deity connections doesn´t have a higher priority/firm relevans in the works of Acharya.

The implications of stating superior female (Hathor/Isis/Mary etc. etc. ) deities as Moon-Goddesses instead of Milky Way Goddesses are of course mythological/cosmologically very different.

A mythological Moon Goddess can logically of course NOT give birth to the Sun – or a Son – but a Milky Way Goddess can if you read the Stories of Creation and connect the story to the formation of the Milky Way. This is what I´m trying to state in my posts anywhere in the religious/mythological debates.

- There is a huge scholarly/consensus interpretative confusion between Lunar and Milky Way deities going on, and also between the terms of “light of the Sun” and “light and shape of the Milky Way centre”.

No matter of how many scholars you can quote from a large amount of books, it still will be religious/mythological/cosmological wrong to confuse Milky Way deities for being Lunar deities.

- The main reason for this very common scholarly confusion is that both the Moon and the Milky Way can show celestial crescent images. This is the very key to understand how the biblical/mythological confusion between Lunar and Milky Way deities takes place.

And, since you don´t like any links to “my horrible website”, read this instead:

“The Milky Way Mythology and the Stories of Creation” - http://vixra.org/abs/1109.0065

And an alternative cosmological explanation of creation:

“New Solar and Galaxy Formation Knowledge” - http://vixra.org/abs/1109.0013

- Combine the information from these two articles and see what you get out of them.



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Le GuinThe Genius of the Beast by Howard BloomAlice's Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll Empire of Illusion by Chris HedgesThe Sound and the Fury by William Faulkner The Extended Phenotype by Richard DawkinsSmoke and Mirrors by Neil GaimanThe Selfish Gene by Richard DawkinsWhen Good Thinking Goes Bad by Todd C. RinioloHouse of Leaves by Mark Z. DanielewskiAmerican Gods: A Novel by Neil GaimanPrimates and Philosophers by Frans de WaalThe Enormous Room by E.E. CummingsThe Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar WildeGod Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything by Christopher HitchensThe Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco Dreams From My Father by Barack Obama Paradise Lost by John Milton Bad Money by Kevin PhillipsThe Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson BurnettGodless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists by Dan BarkerThe Things They Carried by Tim O'BrienThe Limits of Power by Andrew BacevichLolita by Vladimir NabokovOrlando by Virginia Woolf On Being Certain by Robert A. Burton50 reasons people give for believing in a god by Guy P. HarrisonWalden: Or, Life in the Woods by Henry David ThoreauExile and the Kingdom by Albert CamusOur Inner Ape by Frans de WaalYour Inner Fish by Neil ShubinNo Country for Old Men by Cormac McCarthyThe Age of American Unreason by Susan JacobyTen Theories of Human Nature by Leslie Stevenson & David HabermanHeart of Darkness by Joseph ConradThe Stuff of Thought by Stephen PinkerA Thousand Splendid Suns by Khaled HosseiniThe Lucifer Effect by Philip ZimbardoResponsibility and Judgment by Hannah ArendtInterventions by Noam ChomskyGodless in America by George A. RickerReligious Expression and the American Constitution by Franklyn S. HaimanDeep Economy by Phil McKibbenThe God Delusion by Richard DawkinsThe Third Chimpanzee by Jared DiamondThe Woman in the Dunes by Abe KoboEvolution vs. Creationism by Eugenie C. ScottThe Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael PollanI, Claudius by Robert GravesBreaking The Spell by Daniel C. DennettA Peace to End All Peace by David FromkinThe Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey NiffeneggerThe End of Faith by Sam HarrisEnder's Game by Orson Scott CardThe Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark HaddonValue and Virtue in a Godless Universe by Erik J. WielenbergThe March by E. L DoctorowThe Ethical Brain by Michael GazzanigaFreethinkers: A History of American Secularism by Susan JacobyCollapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared DiamondThe Battle for God by Karen ArmstrongThe Future of Life by Edward O. WilsonWhat is Good? by A. C. GraylingCivilization and Its Enemies by Lee HarrisPale Blue Dot by Carl SaganHow We Believe: Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God by Michael ShermerLooking for Spinoza by Antonio DamasioLies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them by Al FrankenThe Red Queen by Matt RidleyThe Blank Slate by Stephen PinkerUnweaving the Rainbow by Richard DawkinsAtheism: A Reader edited by S.T. JoshiGlobal Brain by Howard BloomThe Lucifer Principle by Howard BloomGuns, Germs and Steel by Jared DiamondThe Demon-Haunted World by Carl SaganBury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee BrownFuture Shock by Alvin Toffler

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