tat tvam asi wrote:I just think that it's better to take an uncertain position on an after life. The evidence is actually several fold concerning consciousness. We see things die and life go out of them for sure, but then again we also see people die and revive with elaborate accounts of conscious continuing uninterrupted throughout the whole ordeal.

One strange case was the Russian who was in the morgue for several days and then came to when they cut into him for autopsy. He claimed to be conscious the entire time. My grandfather died several times over heart attack related issues and had a quadruple bypass surgery in the process. He had long winded tales of seeing a bright light, which, coincidentally told him "I am" when my grandfather asked this light who it was. The light asked him if he'd like to stay or go back to his body as the story goes. He told me that there was no pain in the presence of this light that says "I am", so he answered that he prefered to stay with the light. Apparently that wasn't the answer that the light was hoping for and so he was told no, you have to go back because your family needs you a while longer. And bam, he was back in his body in the hospital. He remembered sitting up and vomiting which hit a male CNA who was by his bed side and the CNA slapped his face causing him to choke on his own vomit and then he blacked out. When he came to the CNA wasn't there and he couldn't communicate vocally what had happened to those who were there.

When he was released home he started telling me about his perception of the whole ordeal of dieing and the meeting with the light. I listened but I was already an atheist at that point in life and didn't believe any of it. The light thing is obviously coming from the fact that he grew with the story of Moses and the burning bush and the great "I am that I am" myth. If he were raised Hindu or Buddhist he would have had some other experience during the death or near death time periods. But the odd thing is that when I finally came to him and agreed to listen to his bible study on Yahweh and the sacred names of God that he kept pressing to tell me, he actually died in his sleep the very next Friday night before he had the chance to finish what he started the previous weekend. He believed that he had to come back from the bypass surgery because he hadn't passed on his bible study about the sacred name of Yahweh to me, his oldest grandson. And it actually took several years before I decided to let him tell me what he wanted to say about the tetragrammaton. And so when my grandfather finally did pass on his bible study I guess he felt a peace of mind and just let go on his own terms and felt that it was time to move on. He didn't fear death any more after his ordeal at the hospital. He seemed like he was ready to go whenever, but felt like he had to stick around a while longer to pass on this information about Yahweh. I lived about two hours away and I was planning on going down that Friday night but stayed home instead. I woke up to my mom knocking on my door crying and she told me that Pop died.

Out of respect for his intentions I went through his personal library and followed a paper trail of info about Yahweh. And thus began an investigation into the sacred names of God which kept unfolding and unfolding until I finally understood that Yahweh was a pagan pantheon deity originally and how the old Canaanite deity reflected older myths of Isis as the great "I was, am, will be". I began to understand that these myths are addressed to mere existence itself and drop clues along the way that make it possible to realized this. The big lesson turned out to be nothing more than finally putting it all together and realizing that the Gods of mythology are oriented towards pointing at mere existence as this all encompassing totality that has no fixed beginning or end and is the source, end, and supporting ground of life and being.

I have no idea whether or not my grandfather was truly brain dead or not during the several flat lines he went through. He thought he was conscious throughout. And I have to wonder whether or not existence is itself some type of primal consciousness from which we emerge and to which we all return. I'm agnostic on the whole thing for several reasons. It's possible that his experience was linked into a return to the primal consciousness of existence itself, which he perceived as this "light" as in the biblical myths, but then again he could have just as easily made the whole thing up as some ploy to get me back into the church again and dedicate my life to Yahweh or something. But it actually served to make me all the more atheist and agnostic in the end because I gained a detailed understanding about mythology and how the biblical names of God originally were all reference to different gods and then later masked and disguised with terms like "lord" and "lord of hosts" to try and hide that fact. While it's clear that the myths are non literal it's still not so clear to me as to whether or not existence itself comes with a certain intention geared towards the emergence of life in suitable environments throughout space as a way for the universe to look around at itself and investigate it's depths. If so, this primal urge, or consciousness, would not see anything until it evolves eyes to see. That's where life comes in. Perhaps there is a constant stream of coming and going to and from this primal energy consciousness of sorts and that's why so many traditions and people swear by these experiences. I just don't know until I actually get there myself. At which point I will either experience a transition of consciousness or completely black out into no consciousness whatsoever. And I fear neither of the two outcomes. Like you I tend to lean towards the latter of the two because it's the most logical when you really think about it. But I just can't shut the door on option one. I'm stuck in an agnostic standstill for the time being...

One strange case was the Russian who was in the morgue for several days and then came to when they cut into him for autopsy.

Brief description of putrefaction of a human body with respect to time of death

2–3 days: Staining begins on the abdomen. The body begins to swell, owing to gas formation.
3–4 days: The staining spreads and veins become discolored.
5–6 days: The abdomen swells with gas (produced by the bacteria that decompose the body), and the skin blisters.
2 weeks: The abdomen becomes very tight and swollen.
3 weeks: Tissues begin to soften. Organs and cavities are bursting. The nails fall off.
4 weeks: Soft tissues begin to liquefy, and the face becomes unrecognizable.

The exact rate of putrefaction is dependent upon many factors, such as weather, exposure and location. Thus, refrigeration at a morgue or funeral home can retard the process, allowing for burial in three days or so following death without embalming.

Vishnu wrote:Wow, very fascinating story Tat, thanks for sharing! A side you I don't think I've seen before.

DWill wrote:That was super, tat. One comment I have just incidentally, is that it seems somehow more genuine to me for your grandfather to call his god Yahweh. I have kind of a problem with the name 'God' and sense that Christians don't like it when we call God Yahweh instead. But why should it bother them?

tat tvam asi wrote:The Russian guy was giving his testimony on a show I watched about near death experiences, along with an interesting story about a woman covered by an avalanche who died and returned. I have no idea whether they were true or not, it's just that I went through a time of interest with death and near death experiences and wound up reading "Life After Life" in the process. I was interested in hearing a variety of accounts on the matter...

I died that day and this forum and everything else has all been taking place in the afterlife all the while???