Online reading group and book discussion forum
  HOME FORUMS BOOKS LINKS DONATE ADVERTISE CONTACT  
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:24 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average. 
Ch. 12 - Survival of the Fittest Christianity 
Author Message
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

BookTalk.org Owner
Diamond Contributor 3

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 13725
Location: Florida
Thanks: 1810
Thanked: 704 times in 558 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)
Highscores: 8

Post Ch. 12 - Survival of the Fittest Christianity
Ch. 12 - Survival of the Fittest Christianity



Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:07 pm
Profile Email YIM WWW
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Easy Reader

Gold Contributor 2

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2934
Location: NC
Thanks: 950
Thanked: 1017 times in 758 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 12 - Survival of the Fittest Christianity
For now I'll skip the main thrust of this chapter which is that Paul's concept of brotherly love gave his brand of Christianity the ability to outcompete other brands of Christianity.

In the introduction, Wright discusses the clash between science and religion. He points to scientific discoveries that increased our understanding of the natural world and thus removed the mysticism and fear from many naturally-occurring events such as eclipses.

Quote:
There have many such unsettling (from religion's point of view) discoveries since then, but always some notion of the divine has survived the encounter with science. The notion has had to change, but that's no indictment of religion. After all, science has changed relentlessly revising, if not discarding old theories, and none of us think of that as an indictment of science. On the contrary, we think this ongoing adaptation is carrying science closer to the truth. Maybe the same thing is happening to religion.


In these last couple of chapters, Wright argues that moral progress—the widening circle—is a natural outcome of non-zero-sum scenarios in which tolerance for other's beliefs and ethnicities is deemed mutually beneficial. He suggests the notion of universal love or interethnic amity is rooted in culture. If Pauline Christianity hadn't taken root, universal love would have emerged from somewhere else, another religion or cult. It just needs the right conditions to blossom. But ultimately it is moral progress and maybe it is carrying us closer to the truth.

At the end of Chapter 12, Wright returns to the concept of Logos. Given that technological evolution expands the realm of non-zero-sumness, our concept of God will continue to grow along with it. But this "God" is in quotation marks. Clearly it is our concept of God that changes, not God himself who may not even exist. Wright suggests that Philo's concept of Logos might be a useful way think of this divine purpose.

In fact, what struck me while reading this chapter is that universal love remains an unrealized goal, especially in official religious dogma. It used to be that if you're not baptized you go to hell. I'm pretty sure most people don't actually believe that any more, but many people do believe that if you don't accept Jesus as your savior you will go to hell. As we have previously discussed on BT, some fundamentalist Christians believe Anne Frank is burning in hell right now. So though we have crossed certain ethnic barriers, it seems universal love still has quite a ways to go. If anything Christianity is a barrier to universal love. As such, one could argue that science might be in a better position to promote universal love.


_________________
-Geo
Question everything


Last edited by geo on Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:12 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
pets endangered by possible book avalanche

BookTalk.org Moderator
Gold Contributor

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4841
Location: California
Thanks: 546
Thanked: 1209 times in 931 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 12 - Survival of the Fittest Christianity
Could you explain what is meant by non-zero sumness?



Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:48 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
The Unbound and Learned

BookTalk.org Moderator

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3171
Location: Michigan
Thanks: 1195
Thanked: 940 times in 687 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 12 - Survival of the Fittest Christianity
The possibility of personally meeting an alien from space in our life-times is highly unlikely, but the statistic must be considered non-zero.

As in, not impossible. So, while the probablility may be low, it must be considered.


_________________
In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings.

Have you tried that? Looking for answers?
Or have you been content to be terrified of a thing you know nothing about?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?


Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:07 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Easy Reader

Gold Contributor 2

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2934
Location: NC
Thanks: 950
Thanked: 1017 times in 758 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 12 - Survival of the Fittest Christianity
Interbane wrote:
Could you explain what is meant by non-zero sumness?


Applying game theory to social evolution is sort of Wright's specialty. I see non-zero-sumness as a scenario in which two or more parties find it mutually beneficial to cooperate. You remember Prisoner's Dilemma in The Selfish Gene? Two suspects in a crime can rat each other out and neither would benefit. One could rat out the other and that would be zero-sum—one's gain is the other's loss. Or both could not rat each other out and both would benefit, thus non-zero-sum.

Wright shows how when cultures clash, either in war or in commerce, it becomes mutually beneficial to at least pay lip service to each other's gods and otherwise tolerate each other's cultural differences. That would be a state of non-zero-sumness, at least how I understand it. DWIll could probably explain it better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma


_________________
-Geo
Question everything


Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:12 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
pets endangered by possible book avalanche

Diamond Contributor
Book Discussion Leader

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 4584
Location: Florida
Thanks: 146
Thanked: 247 times in 215 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 12 - Survival of the Fittest Christianity
Once again I must interject my two cents and it will not surprise any one that I completely disagree with the whole concept of 'Survival of the Fittest Christianity' in the context of popularity. In North America we have some mega churches who design their services to appeal to the unchurched. I find that idea totally at odds with the early church model. When the church was just beginning the sermons were very challenging and critical of the people being preached to, so much so that those early preachers often were attacked, beaten and killed. To be a Christian then you had to be serious about it. When Christian doctrine succombs to popular tastes it loses its savor, it is no longer salty and therefore, though it may call itself Christian, it is that no longer. There has been much pressure on the Church in America to compromise on her values and many will continue to do so until there is only a remnant left. But that remnant will be the fittest Christian community.


_________________
“You cannot evade the issue of God, whether you talk about pigs or the binomial theory, you are still talking about Him. Now if Christianity be. . . a fragment of metaphysical nonsense invented by a few people, then, of course, defending it will simply mean talking that metaphysical nonsense over and over. But if Christianity should happen to be true – then defending it may mean talking about anything or everything. Things can be irrelevant to the proposition that Christianity is false, but nothing can be irrelevant to the proposition that Christianity is true.”
- G.K. Chesterton


Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:22 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
pets endangered by possible book avalanche

Gold Contributor 2

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4896
Location: Berryville, Virginia
Thanks: 1071
Thanked: 1024 times in 797 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 12 - Survival of the Fittest Christianity
stahrwe wrote:
Once again I must interject my two cents and it will not surprise any one that I completely disagree with the whole concept of 'Survival of the Fittest Christianity' in the context of popularity. In North America we have some mega churches who design their services to appeal to the unchurched. I find that idea totally at odds with the early church model. When the church was just beginning the sermons were very challenging and critical of the people being preached to, so much so that those early preachers often were attacked, beaten and killed. To be a Christian then you had to be serious about it. When Christian doctrine succombs to popular tastes it loses its savor, it is no longer salty and therefore, though it may call itself Christian, it is that no longer. There has been much pressure on the Church in America to compromise on her values and many will continue to do so until there is only a remnant left. But that remnant will be the fittest Christian community.

So you deny that Christianity became popular early in the last millenium? That seems rather strange. That a particular form of it did become popular is why Wright calls it the fittest of the varieties that were competing. Obviously, he's making no judgment of its value, just that the Pauline school turned out to have what it takes to win out. One of those features was dropping the need for males to be circumcised. Boy would that have been a plus for me. But the question you raise about the megachurches is interesting. Is what they're doing somewhat equivalent to dropping circumcision, in that they might be relaxing the doctrinal core in order to make people feel more welcome and comfortable? I don't know what they're really doing in there, but possibly if it does involve less emphasis on old theology, Wright's thesis is borne out. Religion finds ways to be more inclusive in response to the movement in culture to remove the sharp edges that individuals from different groups can present to each other.


_________________
Man is an animal suspended in webs of significance that he himself has spun.

Clifford Geertz


Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:41 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
pets endangered by possible book avalanche

Gold Contributor 2

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4896
Location: Berryville, Virginia
Thanks: 1071
Thanked: 1024 times in 797 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 12 - Survival of the Fittest Christianity
geo wrote:
Interbane wrote:
Could you explain what is meant by non-zero sumness?


Applying game theory to social evolution is sort of Wright's specialty. I see non-zero-sumness as a scenario in which two or more parties find it mutually beneficial to cooperate. You remember Prisoner's Dilemma in The Selfish Gene? Two suspects in a crime can rat each other out and neither would benefit. One could rat out the other and that would be zero-sum—one's gain is the other's loss. Or both could not rat each other out and both would benefit, thus non-zero-sum.

Wright shows how when cultures clash, either in war or in commerce, it becomes mutually beneficial to at least pay lip service to each other's gods and otherwise tolerate each other's cultural differences. That would be a state of non-zero-sumness, at least how I understand it. DWIll could probably explain it better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma

That's good, geo. I can't claim to understand really anything about game theory (but I nominate interbane to find out and present it to us). Wright wrote a whole book on nonzero-sumness, and I expect in there he tells us how he derives what appears to be a philosophy from specific instances of game theory. I take it that zero-sum games have two players and that the only outcome no matter what the strategy is win for one and loss for the other (1 + -1=0). This would be like in a chess game, an example of a "strictly competitive" game. In nonzero-sum games there are either more than two players or the benefits can accrue to each party in some degree. The popular term of course is win-win. Supposedly, any commercial transaction is nonzero-sum, as long as the parties are rational. Each party always receives (or maybe just believes it has received) something of at least minimally greater value than it had before. This may be why Wright sees trade as being such a huge force in increasing total nonzero-sumness. Wright speaks often in the book of nonzero-sum relationships. I'm not sure what he means by this, not sure how he gets to this general level from the playing out of specific transactions. He seems to mean just relationships in which people are tolerant of each other. He seems to say there is a nonzero-sum outlook on life, but I'm not sure game theory is needed to get to that point.


_________________
Man is an animal suspended in webs of significance that he himself has spun.

Clifford Geertz


The following user would like to thank DWill for this post:
Interbane
Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:09 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
pets endangered by possible book avalanche

BookTalk.org Moderator
Gold Contributor

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4841
Location: California
Thanks: 546
Thanked: 1209 times in 931 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 12 - Survival of the Fittest Christianity
Quote:
Each party always receives (or maybe just believes it has received) something of at least minimally greater value than it had before. This may be why Wright sees trade as being such a huge force in increasing total nonzero-sumness.


That's great. It raises the deeper philosophical question of where the increased value originates in the first place. It doesn't spontaneously corporate during the trade, it must have at least had potential before a trade is made. People's desires create value, not their abilities(what they produce). If there is some kernel of game theory truth here, it makes me even more concerned about supply-side economics. What is the name of the book by Wright on this subject?



Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:33 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
pets endangered by possible book avalanche

Diamond Contributor
Book Discussion Leader

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 4584
Location: Florida
Thanks: 146
Thanked: 247 times in 215 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 12 - Survival of the Fittest Christianity
DWill wrote:
stahrwe wrote:
Once again I must interject my two cents and it will not surprise any one that I completely disagree with the whole concept of 'Survival of the Fittest Christianity' in the context of popularity. In North America we have some mega churches who design their services to appeal to the unchurched. I find that idea totally at odds with the early church model. When the church was just beginning the sermons were very challenging and critical of the people being preached to, so much so that those early preachers often were attacked, beaten and killed. To be a Christian then you had to be serious about it. When Christian doctrine succombs to popular tastes it loses its savor, it is no longer salty and therefore, though it may call itself Christian, it is that no longer. There has been much pressure on the Church in America to compromise on her values and many will continue to do so until there is only a remnant left. But that remnant will be the fittest Christian community.

So you deny that Christianity became popular early in the last millenium? That seems rather strange. That a particular form of it did become popular is why Wright calls it the fittest of the varieties that were competing. Obviously, he's making no judgment of its value, just that the Pauline school turned out to have what it takes to win out. One of those features was dropping the need for males to be circumcised. Boy would that have been a plus for me. But the question you raise about the megachurches is interesting. Is what they're doing somewhat equivalent to dropping circumcision, in that they might be relaxing the doctrinal core in order to make people feel more welcome and comfortable? I don't know what they're really doing in there, but possibly if it does involve less emphasis on old theology, Wright's thesis is borne out. Religion finds ways to be more inclusive in response to the movement in culture to remove the sharp edges that individuals from different groups can present to each other.


Popularity is not a measure of the fittness of Christianity. Prophecy says that as the end times near there will be a great falling away. A world 'church' will emerge which is an amalgum of all religions. Only a remnant of true Christianity will remain. The fact that true Christainity is nearly gone does not mean that it is not the fittest. That is what I mean.


_________________
“You cannot evade the issue of God, whether you talk about pigs or the binomial theory, you are still talking about Him. Now if Christianity be. . . a fragment of metaphysical nonsense invented by a few people, then, of course, defending it will simply mean talking that metaphysical nonsense over and over. But if Christianity should happen to be true – then defending it may mean talking about anything or everything. Things can be irrelevant to the proposition that Christianity is false, but nothing can be irrelevant to the proposition that Christianity is true.”
- G.K. Chesterton


Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:06 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
pets endangered by possible book avalanche

Gold Contributor 2

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4896
Location: Berryville, Virginia
Thanks: 1071
Thanked: 1024 times in 797 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 12 - Survival of the Fittest Christianity
stahrwe wrote:

Popularity is not a measure of the fittness of Christianity. Prophecy says that as the end times near there will be a great falling away. A world 'church' will emerge which is an amalgum of all religions. Only a remnant of true Christianity will remain. The fact that true Christainity is nearly gone does not mean that it is not the fittest. That is what I mean.

But yes, in Darwinian terms (even though Darwin never used the phrase "survival of the fittest") "fittest" is the form most likely to survive. It doesn't confer any value, just a kind of brute force. I do have to say that the end you see as so terrible seems to me a welcome development.


_________________
Man is an animal suspended in webs of significance that he himself has spun.

Clifford Geertz


Last edited by DWill on Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:11 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
pets endangered by possible book avalanche

Diamond Contributor
Book Discussion Leader

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 4584
Location: Florida
Thanks: 146
Thanked: 247 times in 215 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 12 - Survival of the Fittest Christianity
DWill wrote:
stahrwe wrote:

Popularity is not a measure of the fittness of Christianity. Prophecy says that as the end times near there will be a great falling away. A world 'church' will emerge which is an amalgum of all religions. Only a remnant of true Christianity will remain. The fact that true Christainity is nearly gone does not mean that it is not the fittest. That is what I mean.

But yes, in Darwinian terms (even though Darwin never used the phrase "survival of the fittest") "fittest" is the form most likely to survive. It doesn't confer any value, just a kind of brute force. I do have to say that the end you see as so terrible seems to me a welcome development.


The stage I described was only an intermediate step, it will be followed by every everyone bowing and acknowledging that Jesus is Lord when He reveals Himself, sorry.


_________________
“You cannot evade the issue of God, whether you talk about pigs or the binomial theory, you are still talking about Him. Now if Christianity be. . . a fragment of metaphysical nonsense invented by a few people, then, of course, defending it will simply mean talking that metaphysical nonsense over and over. But if Christianity should happen to be true – then defending it may mean talking about anything or everything. Things can be irrelevant to the proposition that Christianity is false, but nothing can be irrelevant to the proposition that Christianity is true.”
- G.K. Chesterton


Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:53 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
pets endangered by possible book avalanche

BookTalk.org Moderator
Gold Contributor

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4841
Location: California
Thanks: 546
Thanked: 1209 times in 931 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 12 - Survival of the Fittest Christianity
If you're still a member of Booktalk when that date comes and goes, I'd very much like to hear your explanation as to why it didn't happen. Breaking the pinata that is.



Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:23 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
pets endangered by possible book avalanche

Diamond Contributor
Book Discussion Leader

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 4584
Location: Florida
Thanks: 146
Thanked: 247 times in 215 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 12 - Survival of the Fittest Christianity
Interbane wrote:
If you're still a member of Booktalk when that date comes and goes, I'd very much like to hear your explanation as to why it didn't happen. Breaking the pinata that is.


Your reference to pinata lost me.
As for the date, don't know when that date will be.


_________________
“You cannot evade the issue of God, whether you talk about pigs or the binomial theory, you are still talking about Him. Now if Christianity be. . . a fragment of metaphysical nonsense invented by a few people, then, of course, defending it will simply mean talking that metaphysical nonsense over and over. But if Christianity should happen to be true – then defending it may mean talking about anything or everything. Things can be irrelevant to the proposition that Christianity is false, but nothing can be irrelevant to the proposition that Christianity is true.”
- G.K. Chesterton


Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:42 am
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
pets endangered by possible book avalanche

BookTalk.org Moderator
Gold Contributor

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4841
Location: California
Thanks: 546
Thanked: 1209 times in 931 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 12 - Survival of the Fittest Christianity
Bunches of mentally immature people greedily awaiting something they greatly desire. That's the image the rapture brings to mind every time I hear of it.

This is a tangent, I don't mean to barb you into making a response. Sorry Dwill.

Back to the subject, only after Jesus returns with the "true" religion resurface as the fittest? This is prophecy and is non-sequitur. This is one of the problems with bringing mysticism into a rational discussion, you abandon logic. Please stick to what is real in these discussions. There may be other avenues of logical approach to show that those churches which are currently most popular will not in the future be the fittest. But for now, they are.



Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:52 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average. 



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:

BookTalk.org Links 
Forum Rules & Tips
Frequently Asked Questions
BBCode Explained
Info for Authors & Publishers
Featured Book Suggestions
Author Interview Transcripts
Be a Book Discussion Leader!
    

Love to talk about books but don't have time for our book discussion forums? For casual book talk join us on Facebook.

Featured Books






BookTalk.org is a free book discussion group or online reading group or book club. We read and talk about both fiction and non-fiction books as a group. We host live author chats where booktalk members can interact with and interview authors. We give away free books to our members in book giveaway contests. Our booktalks are open to everybody who enjoys talking about books. Our book forums include book reviews, author interviews and book resources for readers and book lovers. Discussing books is our passion. We're a literature forum, or reading forum. Register a free book club account today! Suggest nonfiction and fiction books. Authors and publishers are welcome to advertise their books or ask for an author chat or author interview.


Navigation 
MAIN NAVIGATION

HOMEFORUMSBOOKSTRANSCRIPTSOLD FORUMSADVERTISELINKSFAQDONATETERMS OF USEPRIVACY POLICY

BOOK FORUMS FOR ALL BOOKS WE HAVE DISCUSSED
Science Was Born of Christianity - by Stacy TrasancosThe Happiness Hypothesis - by Jonathan HaidtA Game of Thrones - by George R. R. MartinTempesta's Dream - by Vincent LoCocoWhy Nations Fail - by Daron Acemoglu and James RobinsonThe Drowning Girl - Caitlin R. KiernanThe Consolations of the Forest - by Sylvain TessonThe Complete Heretic's Guide to Western Religion: The Mormons - by David FitzgeraldA Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man - by James JoyceThe Divine Comedy - by Dante AlighieriThe Magic of Reality - by Richard DawkinsDubliners - by James JoyceMy Name Is Red - by Orhan PamukThe World Until Yesterday - by Jared DiamondThe Man Who Was Thursday - by by G. K. ChestertonThe Better Angels of Our Nature by Steven PinkerLord Jim by Joseph ConradThe Hobbit by J. R. R. TolkienThe Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas AdamsAtlas Shrugged by Ayn RandThinking, Fast and Slow - by Daniel KahnemanThe Righteous Mind - by Jonathan HaidtWorld War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War by Max BrooksMoby Dick: or, the Whale by Herman MelvilleA Visit from the Goon Squad by Jennifer EganLost Memory of Skin: A Novel by Russell BanksThe Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas S. KuhnHobbes: Leviathan by Thomas HobbesThe House of the Spirits - by Isabel AllendeArguably: Essays by Christopher HitchensThe Falls: A Novel (P.S.) by Joyce Carol OatesChrist in Egypt by D.M. MurdockThe Glass Bead Game: A Novel by Hermann HesseA Devil's Chaplain by Richard DawkinsThe Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph CampbellThe Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor DostoyevskyThe Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark TwainThe Moral Landscape by Sam HarrisThe Decameron by Giovanni BoccaccioThe Road by Cormac McCarthyThe Grand Design by Stephen HawkingThe Evolution of God by Robert WrightThe Tin Drum by Gunter GrassGood Omens by Neil GaimanPredictably Irrational by Dan ArielyThe Wind-Up Bird Chronicle: A Novel by Haruki MurakamiALONE: Orphaned on the Ocean by Richard Logan & Tere Duperrault FassbenderDon Quixote by Miguel De CervantesMusicophilia by Oliver SacksDiary of a Madman and Other Stories by Nikolai GogolThe Passion of the Western Mind by Richard TarnasThe Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le GuinThe Genius of the Beast by Howard BloomAlice's Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll Empire of Illusion by Chris HedgesThe Sound and the Fury by William Faulkner The Extended Phenotype by Richard DawkinsSmoke and Mirrors by Neil GaimanThe Selfish Gene by Richard DawkinsWhen Good Thinking Goes Bad by Todd C. RinioloHouse of Leaves by Mark Z. DanielewskiAmerican Gods: A Novel by Neil GaimanPrimates and Philosophers by Frans de WaalThe Enormous Room by E.E. CummingsThe Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar WildeGod Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything by Christopher HitchensThe Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco Dreams From My Father by Barack Obama Paradise Lost by John Milton Bad Money by Kevin PhillipsThe Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson BurnettGodless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists by Dan BarkerThe Things They Carried by Tim O'BrienThe Limits of Power by Andrew BacevichLolita by Vladimir NabokovOrlando by Virginia Woolf On Being Certain by Robert A. Burton50 reasons people give for believing in a god by Guy P. HarrisonWalden: Or, Life in the Woods by Henry David ThoreauExile and the Kingdom by Albert CamusOur Inner Ape by Frans de WaalYour Inner Fish by Neil ShubinNo Country for Old Men by Cormac McCarthyThe Age of American Unreason by Susan JacobyTen Theories of Human Nature by Leslie Stevenson & David HabermanHeart of Darkness by Joseph ConradThe Stuff of Thought by Stephen PinkerA Thousand Splendid Suns by Khaled HosseiniThe Lucifer Effect by Philip ZimbardoResponsibility and Judgment by Hannah ArendtInterventions by Noam ChomskyGodless in America by George A. RickerReligious Expression and the American Constitution by Franklyn S. HaimanDeep Economy by Phil McKibbenThe God Delusion by Richard DawkinsThe Third Chimpanzee by Jared DiamondThe Woman in the Dunes by Abe KoboEvolution vs. Creationism by Eugenie C. ScottThe Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael PollanI, Claudius by Robert GravesBreaking The Spell by Daniel C. DennettA Peace to End All Peace by David FromkinThe Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey NiffeneggerThe End of Faith by Sam HarrisEnder's Game by Orson Scott CardThe Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark HaddonValue and Virtue in a Godless Universe by Erik J. WielenbergThe March by E. L DoctorowThe Ethical Brain by Michael GazzanigaFreethinkers: A History of American Secularism by Susan JacobyCollapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared DiamondThe Battle for God by Karen ArmstrongThe Future of Life by Edward O. WilsonWhat is Good? by A. C. GraylingCivilization and Its Enemies by Lee HarrisPale Blue Dot by Carl SaganHow We Believe: Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God by Michael ShermerLooking for Spinoza by Antonio DamasioLies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them by Al FrankenThe Red Queen by Matt RidleyThe Blank Slate by Stephen PinkerUnweaving the Rainbow by Richard DawkinsAtheism: A Reader edited by S.T. JoshiGlobal Brain by Howard BloomThe Lucifer Principle by Howard BloomGuns, Germs and Steel by Jared DiamondThe Demon-Haunted World by Carl SaganBury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee BrownFuture Shock by Alvin Toffler

OTHER PAGES WORTH EXPLORING
Banned Book ListOur Amazon.com SalesMassimo Pigliucci Rationally SpeakingOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism BooksFACTS Book Selections

cron
Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2011. All rights reserved.
Website developed by MidnightCoder.ca
Display Pagerank