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Re: The Jesus Myth
Quote:
If you mean ignorant of science that is not true either, my undergraduate major was physics.
The proof is in the pudding. You are ignorant of science. You may be able to recite facts, but a visceral understanding of phenomenon is far beyond your abilities.
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Re: The Jesus Myth
angelarichard25 wrote:
Adam and Eve can't be real, they never existed.It is not true.Of course they are real.If they are not then what about you and me? I mean how human came to the world.You think that Darwin's theory is true.But it is not.If man come from monkey then why monkey exist at present?
They are myths as well. There is much that would cause one to doubt the existence of Jesus. There are no documents written in his own handwriting, nothing that would prove the existence of an almighty miracle worker. He is simply a compilation of many different Gods and God men rolled into one. For instance Paul, if he ever existed never mentions anything about the "virgin birth" now if this had occurred would it not be important to the followers of Christ at the time? The very Gospels that are written in the Bible never give one tiny detail about the life of Christ not one. Could it be they were simply drawing off second hand hear say? Most likely yes. For they did not write what they knew to be fact only what they imagined to be fact. Early church fathers knew it was fraud and they ridiculed and killed most who tried to expose it for what it was, the Pagans and some Christian followers.
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Re: The Jesus Myth
Quote:
Star Burst said: Early church fathers knew it was fraud and they ridiculed and killed most who tried to expose it for what it was, the Pagans and some Christian followers.
_________________
There is a very big difference between ridicule and killing.
My appeal to humanity, for what it is worth, is to say, ridicule away.....to your hearts' content.....
But killing someone because they don't perceive things in the same way as yourself, or even, as the majority of humanity....is not the way forward.
What does it matter if some people believe two and two make five?
Two and Two will always make four......that is a fact....so, we must wait until they reach that conclusion.....to hurry them along....is to sin our own souls.....because patience is a virtue.
And...if we have no souls....what price virtue??????
_________________ Think left and think right and think low and think high. Oh, the thinks you can think up if only you try. Dr. Seuss
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Re: The Jesus Myth
Penelope wrote:
Quote:
Star Burst said: Early church fathers knew it was fraud and they ridiculed and killed most who tried to expose it for what it was, the Pagans and some Christian followers.
_________________
There is a very big difference between ridicule and killing.
My appeal to humanity, for what it is worth, is to say, ridicule away.....to your hearts' content.....
But killing someone because they don't perceive things in the same way as yourself, or even, as the majority of humanity....is not the way forward.
What does it matter if some people believe two and two make five?
Two and Two will always make four......that is a fact....so, we must wait until they reach that conclusion.....to hurry them along....is to sin our own souls.....because patience is a virtue.
And...if we have no souls....what price virtue??????
What are you talking about? Do a study of early church fathers you don't have to take what I wrote as the last word cause its not. Religion kills its that simple. No matter if its Christianity, Islam, Judaism whatever it kills. It harbors hatred, prejudice, contempt, greed just to name a few descriptive adjectives for it. Though these days greed is the number one thing "send your money to the Lord!" Odd they give you their address ain't it. Thats the thing most will never look beyond what's been drilled into their heads all their life, they'll live in fear of going to a mythological Hell and remained suppress for their entire life mired down in religious dogma.
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Re: The Jesus Myth
Hello Starburst, welcome to Booktalk. I have enjoyed reading your comments.
These days it seems a long way from ridicule to more serious conflict, but you are right that in earlier times words rapidly led to blows. The tension sits quite close to the surface. It seems part of the strategy of allowing free speech is that those who are criticised can completely ignore those who make the criticisms.
Discussion at the moment about the Jesus Myth problem seems mainly to appear on the internet and to be systematically censored out of discussion in the mainstream media. I personally find this astonishing, as though everybody who asks questions about the theology of the church is considered invisible, because offending believers is seen as unacceptable, unless that criticism comes from another establishment perspective such as mainstream science, with its rejection of spirituality. The debate is gradually moving towards a critical mass.
Part of the issue is that some people are angry that the church has lied to them, and so move into an oppositional stance where they have contempt for religion. I have argued here that there is potential to redeem Christianity, but only on the basis of a robust analysis aiming to find the truth. I think it was John who said the truth will set you free.
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Re: The Jesus Myth
Robert, hello. Christianity would most likely live through it even if the real truth hit the air waves other than the internet. I really don't believe that religion as a whole is bad it's the way that some factions perpetuate it that irks me. What it comes down to is that especially in Christianity is that fraud and interpolation, forgery have all been a way of life since it's very start. And to wit I agree with most of what you say.
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Re: The Jesus Myth
Star Burst:
Quote:
What are you talking about? Do a study of early church fathers you don't have to take what I wrote as the last word cause its not. Religion kills its that simple. No matter if its Christianity, Islam, Judaism whatever it kills.
What a stupid generalisation. Human beings kill one another for all sorts of stupid reasons. Greed, usually, masquerading as religion.
Buddhism and Hinduism although less bloodthirsty, are even vegetarian, but they still kill.
At least Islam says outright- 'Kill the Infidel' - so in a way they at least admit they are bastards.
_________________ Think left and think right and think low and think high. Oh, the thinks you can think up if only you try. Dr. Seuss
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Re: The Jesus Myth
Penelope wrote:
At least Islam says outright- 'Kill the Infidel' - so in a way they at least admit they are bastards.
I'm sorry, Penelope, I'm not laughing at you, but I find this statement incredibly funny, mostly because it's true. Fundamentalist Muslims certainly aren't going around trying to kill others in the name of goodness and humanity, as Christians often do, they are out for one simple reason: Kill the infidels. It's so true, that your assessment of "at least they admit they are bastards" is just hilarious.
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Re: The Jesus Myth
Penelope wrote:
Star Burst:
Quote:
What are you talking about? Do a study of early church fathers you don't have to take what I wrote as the last word cause its not. Religion kills its that simple. No matter if its Christianity, Islam, Judaism whatever it kills.
What a stupid generalisation. Human beings kill one another for all sorts of stupid reasons. Greed, usually, masquerading as religion.
Buddhism and Hinduism although less bloodthirsty, are even vegetarian, but they still kill.
At least Islam says outright- 'Kill the Infidel' - so in a way they at least admit they are bastards.
Yeah and the most stupid reason of all is religion. Get the burr out from your saddle why don't you!
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Re: The Jesus Myth
I haven't got a burr in my saddle - that's a real cowboy metaphore though- I love it.
It makes me feel like Calamity Jane!!! Yee Ha!!
No, but really, don't you agree that a lot of fighting and killing comes under the banner of religion, when the real reason is not religious at all, and sometimes could be a perfectly good 'other' reason.
For instance. Suppose 'Islam' took over in the USA and demanded that everyone became a Muslim and worshipped at the mosque and bowed to the east etc. Which, they would if they could. Now, I don't mean 'all' Muslims, I mean the Taliban and etc.....
OK. The people who would be put to death for refusing, would be Jews and Christians mainly.......but what about 'all American' atheists? I bet you would fight the Taliban for religious freedom - basic human rights. You would be accused and labelled as fighting about religion, when really you would only be fighting for the right to choose. Civil Rights?? Right? It is written into your constitution is it not? I might be wrong.....but isn't there something in there about the freedom to worship? Or is that the Gettisburg address?
Religion would get the blame though.
_________________ Think left and think right and think low and think high. Oh, the thinks you can think up if only you try. Dr. Seuss
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Re: The Jesus Myth
Sorry StarBurst - but I just thought of another good example:
World War II. Hitler tried to exterminate the Jews - it was called religious persecution.....but it wasn't anything to do with religion. Hitler didn't care about Yom Kippur or whether they had the Sabbath Day on Saturdays........he wanted them exterminated because they were wealthy and owned most of the businesses.
Religion got the blame!
_________________ Think left and think right and think low and think high. Oh, the thinks you can think up if only you try. Dr. Seuss
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Re: The Jesus Myth
Star Burst wrote:
Penelope wrote:
Quote:
Star Burst said: Early church fathers knew it was fraud and they ridiculed and killed most who tried to expose it for what it was, the Pagans and some Christian followers.
_________________
There is a very big difference between ridicule and killing.
My appeal to humanity, for what it is worth, is to say, ridicule away.....to your hearts' content.....
But killing someone because they don't perceive things in the same way as yourself, or even, as the majority of humanity....is not the way forward.
What does it matter if some people believe two and two make five?
Two and Two will always make four......that is a fact....so, we must wait until they reach that conclusion.....to hurry them along....is to sin our own souls.....because patience is a virtue.
And...if we have no souls....what price virtue??????
What are you talking about? Do a study of early church fathers you don't have to take what I wrote as the last word cause its not. Religion kills its that simple. No matter if its Christianity, Islam, Judaism whatever it kills. It harbors hatred, prejudice, contempt, greed just to name a few descriptive adjectives for it. Though these days greed is the number one thing "send your money to the Lord!" Odd they give you their address ain't it. Thats the thing most will never look beyond what's been drilled into their heads all their life, they'll live in fear of going to a mythological Hell and remained suppress for their entire life mired down in religious dogma.
You do not know whereof you speak.
Perhaps you could do an exercise and tell us how each of the Apostles died?
and the following nasty, sinful Christians and Christian institutions all. If you are going to cite the ying, also include the yang.
George Muller Mother Theresa Florence Nightingale William and Catherine Booth YMCA William Wilberforce John Newton John Thornton Eleazar Wheelock John Harvard Dei sub numine viget Lux et veritas
Dr. William H. Beeby. My late father-in-law spent over 30 years as a pastor in Panama, where he did extensive work with the San Blas tribes building hospitals, personally helping to run a fresh water line from the mainland, bringing surgeons and dentists to improve health and correct cleft pallets, a common birth defect due to inbreeding. He also made yearly trips to India or Eastern European countries when they were under communist control. When he went to India he took as many suitcases full of clothes as he could and only came home with what he was wearing. He also took medicine and money which he freely distributed.
Started in the late 1800s, Adventist mission work today reaches people in over 200 countries and territories. Adventist mission workers preach the gospel, promote health through hospitals and clinics, run development projects to improve living standards, and provide relief in times of calamity.
Missionary outreach of the Seventh-day Adventist Church is aimed at both non-Christians and Christians from other denominations. Adventists believe that Christ has called his followers in the Great Commission to reach the whole world. Adventists are cautious, however, to ensure that evangelism does not impede or intrude on the basic rights of the individual. Religious liberty is a stance that the Adventist Church supports and promotes.
Would you like more?
_________________ “I think one of [James Hoffmeier’s] most important points is that we have unrealistic expectations for what archaeology can offer us as far as ‘proving’ Exodus: ‘After all, what evidence, short of an inscription in a Proto-Canaanite script stating “bricks made by Hebrew slaves” would be considered proof that the Israelites were in Egypt. Archaeology’s ability … is quite limited.’” Jeff Lambert, Editorial Associate, Biblical Archaeological Review. via email January 26, 2010 8:20:58 AM. [email receipiant redacted for privacy reasons. See Thread-The Bible's Buried Secrets for full text.]
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Re: The Jesus Myth
From the looks of that list none were Apostles at least not in your mythological Christian god man sense any way. They are no better than the rest of the greedy, hypocritical and pull the wool over our eyes people.
Quote:
, to ensure that evangelism does not impede or intrude on the basic rights of the individual.
Really? I guess that explains the child molesters of the Catholic Church huh, or maybe Christian missionaries trying to steal children out of Haiti. And you think that these wholly good works are going to get people into your mythological heaven? Read your own Bible good works alone don't cut it.
Quote:
Started in the late 1800s, Adventist mission work today reaches people in over 200 countries and territories. Adventist mission workers preach the gospel, promote health through hospitals and clinics, run development projects to improve living standards, and provide relief in times of calamity.
Yeah like Christians persecuting people for being witches, what do you do burn them at the stake and then treat them for third degree burns afterward? There maybe some good works going on by people who have good hearts and well intentions and if so that's good.
Quote:
Missionary outreach of the Seventh-day Adventist Church is aimed at both non-Christians and Christians from other denominations. Adventists believe that Christ has called his followers in the Great Commission to reach the whole world. Adventists are cautious, however, to ensure that evangelism does not impede or intrude on the basic rights of the individual. Religious liberty is a stance that the Adventist Church supports and promotes.
Christ has called no one. He did not exist. Unless your on Meth then he may have some credence.
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Re: The Jesus Myth
Star Burst wrote:
From the looks of that list none were Apostles at least not in your mythological Christian god man sense any way. They are no better than the rest of the greedy, hypocritical and pull the wool over our eyes people.
Interesting perspective. Precisely what wool was was George Muller or Mother Therease, or my father-in-law pulling over whose eyes?
Star Burst wrote:
, to ensure that evangelism does not impede or intrude on the basic rights of the individual.
It would be appreciated if you would provide the context and attribution for any quotes. In this case you are wasting space, there is no way to respond to this as it is not clear what the quote even means.
Star Burst wrote:
Really? I guess that explains the child molesters of the Catholic Church huh, or maybe Christian missionaries trying to steal children out of Haiti. And you think that these wholly good works are going to get people into your mythological heaven? Read your own Bible good works alone don't cut it.
The child molestation cases are intolerable and disgusting. The Haiti situation is less clear but it seems there was no res mens.
Since you seem to be knowledgeable about the Bible, mythological or not, how does one get into heaven if not by good works?
Star Burst wrote:
Quote:
Started in the late 1800s, Adventist mission work today reaches people in over 200 countries and territories. Adventist mission workers preach the gospel, promote health through hospitals and clinics, run development projects to improve living standards, and provide relief in times of calamity.
Yeah like Christians persecuting people for being witches, what do you do burn them at the stake and then treat them for third degree burns afterward? There maybe some good works going on by people who have good hearts and well intentions and if so that's good.
You bounce all around don't you? I am unaware of any SDA's involved with witch trials and you should know your history better. No person accused of witchcraft in the United States has ever been burned and I have no idea what your comment has to do with the discussion at hand other than your inability to respond with something meaningful.
Star Burst wrote:
Quote:
Missionary outreach of the Seventh-day Adventist Church is aimed at both non-Christians and Christians from other denominations. Adventists believe that Christ has called his followers in the Great Commission to reach the whole world. Adventists are cautious, however, to ensure that evangelism does not impede or intrude on the basic rights of the individual. Religious liberty is a stance that the Adventist Church supports and promotes.
Christ has called no one. He did not exist. Unless your on Meth then he may have some credence.
I suppose, in a highly technical sense you are correct. He did not exist.
_________________ “I think one of [James Hoffmeier’s] most important points is that we have unrealistic expectations for what archaeology can offer us as far as ‘proving’ Exodus: ‘After all, what evidence, short of an inscription in a Proto-Canaanite script stating “bricks made by Hebrew slaves” would be considered proof that the Israelites were in Egypt. Archaeology’s ability … is quite limited.’” Jeff Lambert, Editorial Associate, Biblical Archaeological Review. via email January 26, 2010 8:20:58 AM. [email receipiant redacted for privacy reasons. See Thread-The Bible's Buried Secrets for full text.]
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