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I'm not actually on to this chapter yet but here is a quote that I am sure will apply.
Quote:
"Conservatism's triumph has been the result of two innovations that were first rolled out on a massive scale in the seventies. The first of these is the adversarial fantasy, discussed earlier, which has allowed the movement to survive blunder after blunder. The second, which was discovered accidentally in the course of movement-building, was that enormous profits could be made from conservative activism. The right began to understand in those years that there was fantastic potential for synergy between business and politics." -Thomas Frank, The Wrecking Crew
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Grim wrote:
I'm not actually on to this chapter yet but here is a quote that I am sure will apply.
"Conservatism's triumph has been the result of two innovations that were first rolled out on a massive scale in the seventies. The first of these is the adversarial fantasy, discussed earlier, which has allowed the movement to survive blunder after blunder. The second, which was discovered accidentally in the course of movement-building, was that enormous profits could be made from conservative activism. The right began to understand in those years that there was fantastic potential for synergy between business and politics."
The thing is, does Phillips cast the problem as the fault of conservatives? He does give Bush & Co. a lot of the blame, but it seems he believes the mess was bipartisan in cause. From what he says about the ramping up of finance during the Clinton years (not that Clinton was especially liberal), I believe he'd say we'd have a similar result if the administration had been Democratic for the past eight years. If the "market triumphalism" that Phillips laments began as a gleam in the eye of conservatives (who confusingly are also called neoliberals), that religion made the jump to the other side of the political spectrum. The country as a whole seemed sold on it.
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DWill wrote:
The thing is, does Phillips cast the problem as the fault of conservatives? He does give Bush & Co. a lot of the blame, but it seems he believes the mess was bipartisan in cause. From what he says about the ramping up of finance during the Clinton years (not that Clinton was especially liberal), I believe he'd say we'd have a similar result if the administration had been Democratic for the past eight years. If the "market triumphalism" that Phillips laments began as a gleam in the eye of conservatives (who confusingly are also called neoliberals), that religion made the jump to the other side of the political spectrum. The country as a whole seemed sold on it.
Well, Frank did mention in passing a partisan group of what you could call Conservative Democrats who would be disposed to agree with key mainline Conservative Republican rhetoric. I have not read this chapter yet, but I will add more later if I can find a good enough quote.
If you liked Bad Money and The Limits of Power I would highly recommend a quick reading of The Wrecking Crew. It's quite the astonishing exposure as to the degree of corruption ingrained in the conservative political view towards the democratic political system with particular emphasis on the fallacy of key conservative free-market ideologies. It's a defiantly liberal perspective to say the least, either that or all liberals are saints. But we are dealing with the effects of a conservative majority so...
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These are some of MY thoughts on the Global Crisis of American capitalism. IF someone wants to object to my argument, then please do so LOGICALLY. Do so by refuting by arugments and their premises. Back up your arguments with facts and knowledge of history and with sound premises. Do not attack my character, and distract yourself from the real issues. Just because you DONT LIKE what im saying, don't get pissed. Show me you are right and I am wrong (always with respect) This is a place to debate. Please debate properly! If the ancients could do this succesfully, so should you. Well, enough of my rambling. Here are some scattered thoughts on the world's sad status, and where its going, today:
Saffron,
I think you misunderstood Grim. He did say 1984, not 1894. Also, regarding the vote (5/5 booktalk members voted that they did NOT lose their jobs during the current recession), even though not many booktalk members have lost their jobs, i guarantee that almost each and every one of us knows someone else who lost their job during this recession. I know eight people, but, then again, I live in Detroit where things are much worse (and will only get even worse with time) than in most places in the rest of the country. Our unemplyment rate is at 16%. Yep. Things aint that good here. The only good thing is that weve been in a recession for quite some time now (about 3-4 years). So the state has already sort of coped. We have been living through what the rest of the country is just beginning to taste (although there are other states that have gotten it even worse than us, like Indiana, Ohio, and California). But, I am terrified to see how things will turn out once one of the big three go under. This will happen people. Watch.
The unfortunate thing is that Americans still have this false hope, that since we elected a new President, things will be taken care of. This has been the case in the past, but, our circumstances are unique and not nearly like before. Its too bad that things are going to change, but only for the worse. There are many reasons why and entire discussions can be made of this, but , I am sure that our elites and people in power are going to continue what they have been doing for 40 years now. They will implement the same economic and military policies that got us into trouble in the first place and I hate to see that. The Obama administration are sticking with the Finance industry and bailing them out just like Kevin Philips' "Bad Money" charged past administrations for bailing out the finance industry in the 87 crisis, 90's problems, and the 2001 stock bubble burst.
Obama will continue Laissez-faire policies and leave the economy unregulated and unintervened. He will help the rich get more rich, and neglect true change in the underlying system. Dont let his superficial policies of change fool you. Please, if only someone would explain to me! How has he changed the system itself??? The system that has been in dire straits for the past 8 yrs, how has he changed that?? By not calling guantanamo bay detainees enemy conbatants anymore??? By finally funding stem cell research?? By passing a "stimulus" bill that pays for temporary projects (6 months of fixing roads then what)?? Again, he has not provided REAL change and he will not. I assure you. Please people dont be fooled! Since when has the government been honest to you??? They treat Americans like naive teenagers!! Our elites have NOOO respect for popular opinion.
Last edited by bobby408 on Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
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By the way, even Obama's quasi "socialist" programs, like universal healthcare, will NOT be implemented. He will APPEAR to be doing everything he can to pass it, but congress will NEVER pass it and they (congress) will be made to look like culprits to the American public, while the rich (congress, the president, and the rest) win again and avoid tax money from going to the lesser classes. Spending on "socialist" policies and programs that help the lower classes has decreased 30% over the past 40 years! It would have been more if it was politically feasible. But the American public LOVes their programs and get VERY defensive when politicians want to take it away (look what happened to G.W. Bush when he tried to "privatize," that is, to eliminate social security from the burdens of the government). Anyways, the rich have slowly usurped power from the New Deal policies that dispersed wealth more evenly to Americans. This rich power elite has just about eliminated the power of unions (except the old and ailing big three). The gap between rich and poor has reached its highest point since the "roaring twenties." Now, an even greater Depression than the one in the 30's WILL be upon us, and there will be no FDR to save us. Our democratic system of government will not help us this time. Without a global form of government, this new GLOBALIZED power elite will usurp more power, until the rest have nothing. They have gotten free reigns to do whatever they want around the world through their "globalization" through NAFTA and the WTO. RESEARCH THESE AGREEMENTS. PLEASE. They have NO environmental regulations. They have NO enforceable rights for employees to organizes. They have no minimum wage floor. They have no labor and employee rights. Want more proof???!!! Look at Canada and Mexico!! They have done SOO MUCH worse economically AFTER NAFTA than before, especially poor old Mexico. Remember people, it will be worse. If there is no real and effective change to the current system, things are going to be even more scarier. If this continues, you will see violent revolutions being sparked ALL over the globe. Waves of protest and rebeliion will make themselves manifest from the dire poverty and straits of the poor majority of the world. I mean, face it, IF things get worse, then people will not tolerate much more. Look at all the violent revolutions that happened in the past. The french revolution, the Russian revolution, the colonial revolutions that gave independance to many countries, especially African, that were once colonies. You cannot wish to oppress someone so much as to give them nothing. They will eventually revolt because they will literally have nothing to lose. And so, unfortunately, we will have violent change. I hope I am not alive when this happens, for this will be more violent and scary than anything that has ever happened in history. I just hope that the new system that comes to replace our current ones will break the cycle of tyrranical and oppressive governments, but I doubt it....
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