Interbane wrote: Give me an example of a correlation between the bible and the cosmos that is not explained by ancient astronomers putting their findings in text.

http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/w ... astes.html

Robert Tulip wrote:. . . as we now move from the Age of Pisces to the Age of Aquarius, the theory would postulate a movement in the world's organising principal from what astrology claims is the central Piscean theme – ie belief – to what is claimed as the central Aquarian theme – knowledge.

Robert, where are you getting these "central themes" from? Is there a source for them on the Internet? I'd like to see all twelve.

Tom

RT
You are too harsh on the 'unconscious guidance' point, where I may have worded things unclearly.

Well here is my problem…

You say that there is a connection between Venus and Satan and that this connection was intended by the writers of Jesus’ time. The connection is through the traits of Vanity and beauty.

Satan had not yet been described this way at that time; he was merely God’s prosecutor. It wasn’t until several generations after Jesus was supposed to have died that the change was made.

When I brought this to your attention you basicly said that that it was not a problem because the UNIVERSE directed Satan’s ultimate description.

Am I getting this right?

RT
Yes, the cosmos did “back up during the dark ages”.

Than my question would be why?

Does the cycle only follow Christian nations?

Because the rest of the world (the bulk of the world) was moving along just fine at that time, Asia and the Middle East were making forward progress during those years; North and South America were moving forward as well.

Doesn’t the cosmos keep track of those cultures?

Later

Thomas Hood wrote:

Robert Tulip wrote:. . . as we now move from the Age of Pisces to the Age of Aquarius, the theory would postulate a movement in the world's organising principal from what astrology claims is the central Piscean theme – ie belief – to what is claimed as the central Aquarian theme – knowledge.

Robert, where are you getting these "central themes" from? Is there a source for them on the Internet? I'd like to see all twelve. Tom

On a quick google I found the 12 themes of the signs at http://www.astroprofile.com/signs.htm. These are standard archetypal descriptors for example in Sakaoin and Acker's Astrologer's Handbook.

Robert Tulip wrote:On a quick google I found the 12 themes of the signs at

http://www.astroprofile.com/signs.htm

These are standard archetypal descriptors for example in Sakaoin and Acker's Astrologer's Handbook.

Yes, I see:

Aries I am.
Taurus I have.
Gemini I think.
Cancer I feel.
Leo I will.
Virgo I analyse.
Libra I balance.
Scorpio I desire.
Sagittarius I understand.
Capricorn I use.
Aquarius I know.
Pisces I believe.

I associate Pisces with the mystical and intuitive.

Tom

Thomas, the link you posted in reply to me was to an attack site of some sort. Do you have another reference?

Also, I had a baby boy! March 1st 2009, 3:54 AM.

Interbane wrote:Thomas, the link you posted in reply to me was to an attack site of some sort. Do you have another reference?

Also, I had a baby boy! March 1st 2009, 3:54 AM.

Congratulations on the new baby, Interbane. May you find joy in fatherhood.

There was an error in the URL as posted and I have corrected it:

http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/w ... astes.html

Warning: FortuneCity has added pop-ups to this website. Do not access it unless your computer blocks pop-ups.

You had asked (as I understood) for "an example of a correlation between the bible and the cosmos that is not explained by ancient astronomers putting their findings in text." Ecclesiastes is such an example, and based on no more than naked-eye observation. The sequence of the days of the week in Genesis 1 and the sequence of the Ten Commandments are other examples of ancient cosmology.

Tom

Congratulations and Mazeltopf !!!!!!!

Will you call him David? It being St.David's Day, 1st March?



My grandaughter is due to be born on 10th April - I'll keep you posted.

Interbane - I thought you were female!!!

Unlike others on this thread....I don't read the signs!

Frank 013 wrote:

RT: You are too harsh on the 'unconscious guidance' point, where I may have worded things unclearly.

Well here is my problem…You say that there is a connection between Venus and Satan and that this connection was intended by the writers of Jesus’ time. The connection is through the traits of Vanity and beauty. Satan had not yet been described this way at that time; he was merely God’s prosecutor. It wasn’t until several generations after Jesus was supposed to have died that the change was made. When I brought this to your attention you basically said that that it was not a problem because the UNIVERSE directed Satan’s ultimate description. Am I getting this right?

Frank, I am not proposing that the early Christians identified the physical planet Venus with Satan. Rather, I am trying to develop a scientific theory of mythology, whereby the ideas that find purchase in human culture have a material base, including a cosmic base, that is only partly grasped. Some further explanation of this view of mythology is here.

I take your point that the symbolism of Satan is complex and ambiguous. We can see this in the analogy with Venus, where the pagan Goddess of beauty and love was twisted in Christian puritanism into a symbol of decadence and depravity. The Pythagoreans, who worshiped Venus partly for the mathematical beauty of its regular eight year pentagram cycle, used the five point star pointing downwards as one of their symbols, and this later became the Satanic symbol. It is easy to imagine how the Christians with their fanatically monochrome belief system would have viewed the intricate complexity of Pythagorean lore as Satanic, as the Church Fathers sought to expel beauty from their world along with depravity. Early Christians like Irenaeus and Tertullian were like the Taliban of their day, destroying the classical world as the Taliban dynamited the Buddhas of Bamayan in a frenzy of faith.

This picks up on the ambiguity of the attraction readers find in Milton's Satan as a figure of dynamism and Promethean creativity against the static stupidity of angels like Uriel. Satan says to man that he can be a God, just as the pagans invoked a mysterious participation in divinity. As I read it, an underlying problem is that the church monopolised the right to define God and Satan primarily to serve their temporal political purposes. These definitions did not accord with the perceptions of those outside the hierarchy, hence the sense that Milton's cosmology did not align directly with objective good and evil in the way he portrayed them.

Your claim that the Gospel myth of Satan as the worldly deceiver only emerged after the time of Jesus does not ring true to me. The deceiver is already present along with God's prosecutor in Job. I know you view the Gospels with extreme skepticism, but the range of Satanic references during the life of Jesus include the temptation in the wilderness, the entry of Satan into Judas, and the condemnation of Peter for rejecting the path of the cross (Matt 16:23). The image of Satan as prince of the world worshipping beauty and pleasure seems to me to have quite deep roots. (Incidentally the idea of God's prosecutor also has a Christian resonance in the Dominicans – the hounds of God – and the Inquisition).

RT: Yes, the cosmos did “back up during the dark ages”.

Then my question would be why? Does the cycle only follow Christian nations? Because the rest of the world (the bulk of the world) was moving along just fine at that time, Asia and the Middle East were making forward progress during those years; North and South America were moving forward as well. Doesn’t the cosmos keep track of those cultures? Later

In fact, the first Christian millennium was a time of the domination of belief around the world, as the major cultures of Europe, Asia and America were in isolation from each other and wrongly believed the universe revolved around them. Europe also made progress during the dark ages, with inventions like armour, castles and the wheelbarrow. The term “back up” was yours, and I partially accept it, while recognising that belief as an organising principal has both positive and negative features.

Back on my theme of Paradise Lost as a rock opera, here is a suitable number for Book XI from those lascivious atheists Bananarama

Goddess on the mountain top Burning like a silver flame The summit of beauty and love And Venus was her name She's got it Yeah, baby, she's got it I'm your Venus, I'm your fire At your desire Well, I'm your Venus, I'm your fire At your desire Her weapons were her crystal eyes Making every man a man Black as the dark night she was Got what no-one else had Wa! She's got it Yeah, baby, she's got it I'm your Venus, I'm your fire At your desire Well, I'm your Venus, I'm your fire At your desire Goddess on the mountain top Burning like a silver flame The summit of beauty and love And Venus was her name She's got it Yeah, baby, she's got it I'm your Venus, I'm your fire At your desire Well, I'm your Venus, I'm your fire At your desire

RT

Interbane wrote:Also, I had a baby boy! March 1st 2009, 3:54 AM.

Congratulations. Other things fade into insignificance....