No such luck.

seespotrun2008 wrote:Hi, I am trying to see all the posts. So I thought I would post something to see if this fixed that bug.

Beelzebub does want us talking about him. An exorcism might help, as clearly this is beyond the control of science

In the meantime, we can work around the little devil by accessing posts by going to the index and working down to where the sought post is. Get to the index by clicking on Forums or on Forum Index.

Tom

I must first admit I have not read any of this thread yet -- I've just finished bk II and just want to post a thought I had while listening to it. I couldn't get Cormac McCarthy's No Country for Old Men out of my mind. I guess I better explain my take on the title. It seems to me that the book is suggesting that a tide has turned, a balance tipped. The world is now more evil than good, as illustrated by the pure evil of the character Anton Chigurh. He in fact is the last man standing; surviving to even walk away from a car crash at the very end. Hence, this new world is no country for old men. In McCarthy's world Satan is winning.

Oh, one more thing -- what's with the word massy? Milton uses it a lot. It does sound good in the places that he has placed it, but was it a word in common use at the time Milton wrote or is it a poetic?

Saffron wrote:Oh, one more thing -- what's with the word massy? Milton uses it a lot. It does sound good in the places that he has placed it, but was it a word in common use at the time Milton wrote or is it a poetic?

He scarce had ceas't when the superiour Fiend
Was moving toward the shoar; his ponderous shield
Ethereal temper, massy, large and round, [ 285 ]
Behind him cast; the broad circumference
Hung on his shoulders like the Moon, . . . .
-- Book I

Saffron, this is the only occurrence of 'massy' in Paradise Lost. Am I mistaken?

Thomas Hood wrote: Saffron, this is the only occurrence of 'massy' in Paradise Lost. Am I mistaken?

Here is a second:
Bk I
703

With wondrous are founded the massy ore,


I believe there are two more tucked somewhere between the start of bk I and the end of Bk III. I will look.

Saffron wrote:

Thomas Hood wrote: Saffron, this is the only occurrence of 'massy' in Paradise Lost. Am I mistaken?

Here is a second:
Bk I
703

With wondrous are founded the massy ore,


I believe there are two more tucked somewhere between the start of bk I and the end of Bk III. I will look.

You're right. I was tricked by the alternate spelling of 'massy'. In the Dartmouth version:

With wondrous Art found out the massie Ore

There are five occurrences of 'massie'.

Reminder from the sticky summary "BOOK II: A debate is held whether or not to attempt recovery of heaven. A third proposal is preferred, concerning an ancient prophecy of another world which was to be created, where the devils may seek to enact their revenge. Satan alone undertakes the voyage to find this world. He encounters Sin and Death, his offspring, guarding hell's gates. Sin unlocks the gate, and Satan embarks on his passage across the great gulf of chaos between heaven and hell, till he sights the new universe floating near the larger globe which is heaven."

This is about the blowback from God's decision to let Satan rot in hell. Satan asks what is precious to God that he can wreck? Earth. Satan lacks the power to fight God directly, so plans the whispering gossip campaign to drive a subtle wedge that can only grow. We often see this archetype of revenge in the world, where punishment bounces back (even just a dead cat bounce) into the face of the punisher. A bit like the way society suffers from the absence of rehabilitation in the jail system, so ex-prisoners look out for ways to get back at a world that crushed their dreams. Or worse still, Hitler reacting to the Treaty of Versailles.

The PL idea of the reconciliation of freedom and necessity is rather like Paul's comment that we rejoice in suffering because suffering produces endurance, character and hope. Similarly, God's decision to toughen up humanity as a matter of necessity by testing us with the devil is rather like plunging a molten sword into icy water to temper and strengthen it, building character through adversity.

I find myself imagining that Satan could have taken a hacksaw to the golden chain hanging the solar system from heaven, so we would plunge through chaos to hell. Why didn't Moloch think of that? Maybe even dumb Uriel would have been quick enough to say 'what's all this then?' and tie the plastic handcuffs on if Lucifer tried that caper.