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BabyBlues  I can enter The Chamber
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:14 pm Post subject: assumption
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| Didn't he advocate seeing/accepting all men as ones brother? |
Is there an automatic assumption that one inevitably does not see/accept other men as one's brother?
Just because someone believes in God and finds one way of practice/belief more meaningful to him/her, is it fair to assume he or she does not embrace the rest of the human race?
If I am Christian and my sister is Agnostic and I have friends who are Jewish and Atheist, is the labeling and the acceptance of one another automatically mutually exclusive? Can’t both coexist? If my husband and I do not define our religious beliefs in the same terms, don't I still value him as a human and embrace him... in more ways that one...
If we look at each person as our brother/sister, isn't it fair to recognize and embrace the differences among us...just as in a "real" family there is an assortment of individuals, sometimes with diametrically opposing ideas and mores, who understand there is a shared community despite/because of our rich diversity…
Not all people who express faith are fanatical bigots... |
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BabyBlues  I can enter The Chamber
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:16 pm Post subject: ps
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sorry for the double post earlier...
the computer said it did not go through and then when i resubmitted it it double posted...
I suppose that today we can add "technologically challenged" to my labels...  |
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Saffron  Amazingly Intelligent

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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:26 pm Post subject:
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My results are no surprise to me. I attended UU church for a number of years before switching to Quaker.
My #1 is: Unitarian Universalism
My #2 is: Unity Church
My #3 is: Liberal Quakerism
My #4 is: Episcopal/Anglican Church
My #5 is: Methodist/Wesleyan Church
My #6 is: Seventh-Day Adventist
My #7 is: Mormonism
My #8 is: Jehovah's Witness
My #9 is: Mennonite Brethren
My #10 is: Orthodox Quakerism
My #11 is: Assemblies of God
My #12 is: Evangelical Lutheran Church
My #13 is: Free Will Baptist
My #14 is: Presbyterian Church USA
My #15 is: Southern Baptist
My #16 is: Eastern Orthodox Church
My #17 is: Church of Christ
My #18 is: Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod
My #19 is: Presbyterian Church in America/Orthodox Presbyterian Church
My #20 is: Reformed Baptist
My #21 is: Reformed Churches
My #22 is: United Pentecostal Church
My #23 is: Roman Catholic Church
My #24 is: International Church of Christ |
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Moon Knight Eligible to vote!

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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:07 pm Post subject:
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| Penelope wrote: |
Why do you all want to label yourselves???
These listed here are all 'Christian' denominations.
What about the Muslims, the Hindus, The Jews, The Shintos, The Laoists?
There are good, Godly people in all of these 'religions' and there are others, in all of them, who make one wonder....were the heck they are coming from.
To label yourself...makes you separate yourself from others...not good.
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Labels serve a useful purpose as a way of describing one's general attributes to others before "fine tuning" the picture. If one is a member of a certain denomination then one should hold most if not all of the beliefs of a practicing member of that denomination. That is by definition what it means to be part of that church.
I see each Christian denomination as virtually a different religion. Given that each has a different concept/idea of who God is, then as I see it they are each worshipping different entities (whether some/all/none of those entities exist or not is irrelevant).
People that hold this "We all believe different things but we're worshipping the same God" idea are crazy to me. If each person has a different conception of God then each is worshipping a different image. There are right and wrong answers to the big questions. I am not going to sit here and suggest I have all or even any of those answers. I am not going to say that any religion or denomination thereof has the answers. Maybe one has some and another has some other ones, but meanwhile both have certain aspects wrong.
Conversely, if two people in two different denominations, or even two different religions, believe in the same concept of God then they are worshipping the same God. That God need not have the same name, or even be conceptualized as a single entity in both religions.
We cannot "just all get along" and pretend our differences don't matter and that there are not distinct rights and wrongs out there that we all must discover, making some people right and some people wrong. |
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Moon Knight Eligible to vote!

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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:12 pm Post subject:
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| Penelope wrote: |
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| if one chooses to label oneself as something (as opposed to the label being imposed from the outside) doesn't that add to his/her sense of identity and self? |
Didn't the founder of Christianity - talk about dying to 'the self'?
Didn't he advocate seeing/accepting all men as ones brother?
Don't you think he meant us to 'not be seperate'? |
This is just a paraphrase, but, Jesus also said that he came with a sword to divide. He makes clear at one point to his disciples that they need to get their swords ready and prepare for trouble. However Peter, upon taking Jesus too literally, is scolded. No, a literal sword is not intended here.
There is another passage that says something along the lines of "He who is not for you is against you". Meanwhile there is a story elsewhere of Jesus rebuking his disciples for scolding a man who was performing an exorcism without first consulting with Jesus or the disciples. The point of these two seemingly conflicting passages was that a person is with Jesus as much as they are in agreement and against him as much as they are without agreement. Don't get after people that are speaking truth just because they're not in your fold, but don't give anyone quarter who speaks untruths. |
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jaywalker  Gaining experience
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Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:44 am Post subject: Which Christian Denomination are you?
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| Helemal un-devout Buddhist with Pagan leanings and with a yen for Freya. |
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BabyBlues  I can enter The Chamber
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Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:03 pm Post subject: :)
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Jaywalker,
I appreciate your Helemal un-devout Buddhist with Pagan leanings and with a yen for Freya-ness
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Penelope  Stupendously Brilliant Silver Contributor


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Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:52 am Post subject:
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JayWalker's Label:-
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| Helemal un-devout Buddhist with Pagan leanings and with a yen for Freya. |
You have pinpointed the problem, Jay. As some of us get older, our labels get longer......my label would look like 'The Gettysburg Address'. So maybe my grumble at these people for labelling themselves, is just envy on my part.
It is true that the more I read and study and listen and look around me....the less certain I become of what is really going on. Quite bewildered!
But, I know I like it.  |
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Penelope  Stupendously Brilliant Silver Contributor


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Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:28 pm Post subject:
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Jaywalker - I just thought I would confess, that never having heard of Helemal - I Googled it. I got three links in German (or Dutch?) and your post came fourth, from Booktalk.
Before long,you will be famous, if you insist on making obscure posts.
I don't know why you bother....You should let us all burn.  |
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tarav  Stupendously Brilliant BookTalk.org Moderator Silver Contributor


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Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject:
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BabyBlues said:
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| It is funny beause if someone were to come on the boards and say he or she were an atheist (as people on here have done...especially apparent in the boards about 50 reasons...) , I doubt people would be upset that he or she was using a label to define him or herself. Yet, if someone expresses, even in this trivial poll, that they do have a religious inclination, then the label is negative and separatist. I think that is very interesting... |
I understand what you are trying to say here. However, your assumption that the label of atheist is a uniformly accepted label is debatable. There are actually many atheists who complain about other atheists using the term, "atheist"! Many people do not want to be defined by the absence of a belief, and shun the label atheist. Some people feel that the negative connotations of atheist make it an undesirable label. There was even a movement pushing the term, "bright" as a more desirable label. So, I am not sure that your "doubt" is founded. There are probably people who would be upset about others using the label atheist. There are people who don't like labels and people who like to identify with a label. I see both sides. I understand how labels are limiting and often divisive. I also see the practicality in applying labels. We like to sort and categorize! We also like to be unique! |
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jaywalker  Gaining experience
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Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:34 am Post subject: Which Christian Denomination are you?
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Penelope, yea sorry, I talking Dutch and English all day and I mix 'em up.
sorry again. |
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bibliophile_18 Eligible to vote!

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Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:22 am Post subject:
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Not one for the horrible labels of society. I am a firm believer in whatever-is-out-there-has-a-horrible-twisted-sense-of-humor-and-helps- when-necessary.
And yes, I know that's a mouth-full but I don't feel like making it short. It fits who and what I am. Raised Christian, turned against that god and tried to find myself among everything else just didn't work. so...yup. that's me. And please, no labeling me. -_- |
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amielou Eligible to vote!
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Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:36 pm Post subject:
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Soon to be Catholic. I'm beginning RCIA classes in a month. Mostly because it's the only church I've ever been comfortable in and my boyfriend is Catholic and we're planning to get married.
(But I don't have the ring yet, for those of you keeping track....soon. Very soon...I'll keep you all posted). |
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Dissident Heart  Wisdom Personified Bronze Contributor


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Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:55 pm Post subject:
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| I am a baptised member of the United Church of Christ...doing my part to lead adult education, be a member on the board of directors, provide occasional sermons and helping with the worship committee...honored to serve alongside some beautiful souls on the peace and justice ministry team...and stoked to participate in the inter-faith committee that is working to define and foster our relationship with the Synagogue that shares our worship space...and well aware of the imperfections and room for growth that plague any human enterprise- this Church being no exception...the cliques, gossip, self-righteousness, fear and ignorance, and all those less than noble elements that make living in community so damned difficult. I am grateful that this community is hungry for knowledge and committed to making the world a better place, wanting to ensure social justice and ecological sustainability...and they work to develop tools of forgiveness, reconcilliation and compassion...practical methods to increase family vitality and community awareness and civic responsibility...learning new and old ways to pray, meditate and sit quietly with life's mysteries and tragedies...to also accompany those who are in great need through illness, loss of job, housing or death. Did I mention a profound appreciation of music too, and art as well? |
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Robert Tulip  Senior
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Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject:
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| I am a member of the Uniting Church in Australia. The UCA was formed in 1977 by the merger of the Methodist Church and parts of the Presbyterian Church and the Congregational Church, bringing together three of the mainstream nonconformist denominations. Conservative Pressies and Congies remained sectarian and did not join, so the UCA has more of a left-liberal leadership although deeply conservative among many members. My father's father John Tulip was a Methodist Minister who emigrated from Durham to Queensland in 1923. My mother Marie Tulip's family were from Scottish Presbyterian emigrants to Queensland in the 1850s and mum's dad Robert Grant was the town doctor in Mackay. I was baptised in Epping Methodist Church in 1963, but when the UCA formed my parents were more in sympathy with the local Congregational congregation, so I attended there in between long bouts of atheism. My mother wrote a book about the status of women in the Uniting Church, starting from the premise that Jesus was a feminist and moving to the conclusion that the church is a bastion of patriarchy. Partly as a result of writing that book mum sees herself as more Buddhist than Christian. My dad Jim Tulip was an associate professor of English at Sydney University and head of school of religious studies, with primary interest in the relation between literature and spirituality. Mum and dad met at the University of Queensland and went together to Chicago where dad did a PhD at University of Chicago on Richard III and mum did an MA at Northwestern on the love poems of Paul Clodel, returning to Sydney in 1962. Dad had sabbatical leave for a year at Oxford University in 1968, so I started school in Sutton Courtenay. We went to Sweden to stay with my mother's sister Helen and her husband Lars Frostell, and we drove through Denmark and Germany and the low countries to Paris in May 1968. Dad had a next sabbatical at Yale University in 1976-77, and we lived at New Haven and drove in June to California, including stays with Norm Spector in Chicago and Robert Bly in Minnesota. I have the three strands of the UCA in my heritage, Methodist, Presbyterian and Congregationalist, but am still something of a pariah due to my eclectic background and views, and am tolerated at my local congregation Kippax Uniting Church where I play piano for the traditional service and help choose hymns and occasionally do the intercessory prayers for others. |
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