A Shropshire Lad

Saffron · Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:51 pm Post subject: A Shropshire Lad

Chris is encouraging us to jump right in and get the threads multiplying. First up for discussion, A Shropshire Lad by A.E. Housman.

Here is a website with a digitized version of the book.

http://books.google.com/books?id=cTMiAAAAMAAJ&dq=A.E.+Housman,+%22A+Sh ropshire+Lad&pg=PP1&ots=l4Q8Ck9CGg&sig=yJXTze1v2dTz2srqMUwW6JzofPk&hl= en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPP5,M1

Saffron · Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:55 pm Post subject:

From Wikipedia:

Alfred Edward Housman (pronounced /ˈhaʊsmən/; 26 March 1859 – 30 April 1936), usually known as A.E. Housman, was a classical scholar and English poet best known for his cycle of poems A Shropshire Lad. Lyrical and almost epigrammatic in form, the poems were mostly written before 1900. Their wistful evocation of doomed youth in the English countryside, in spare language and distinctive imagery, appealed strongly to late Victorian, Edwardian and Georgian taste, and to many early twentieth century English composers (beginning with Arthur Somervell) both before and after the First World War. Through their song-settings the poetry therefore became closely associated with that era, and with Shropshire itself.

Housman was counted one of the foremost classicists of his age, and ranks as one of the greatest scholars of all time[1]. He established his reputation publishing as a private scholar and on the strength and quality of his work was appointed Professor of Latin at UCL and later, at Cambridge. His editions of Juvenal, Manilius and Lucan are still considered authoritative.

DWill · Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject:

Okay, Saffron, you have a head of steam, I can see. Good going. We have Chris keeping a close watch on the poetry nuts. I might have to hang back a bit until a certain business I have is completed. I hope at least a few others will have a look at "A Shropshire Lad." I think they might like it. It definitely is a period piece, but can get under your skin. Well, some might say the book is a downer, but if you like melancholy as I do, it's one to read. I think the poetry forum this far has been too cheerful anyway (when it wasn't about sex, which is also cheerful come to think of it). I have a few of these poems in my memory banks.

DWill

Poetaster · Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject: A Shropshire Lad:

I'm so glad that everyone has chosen to read this.

I first discovered Housman in high school. He was one of the only poets that I knew of at the time who wrote verse that talked about explicitly homosexual love. I'm not sure if there are any in this particular collection, but his love poems are passionate without being vulgar and intimate without being obscene. He's one of the only Edwardians, in my opinion, that can write convincing poetry displaying the love between two men.

Saffron · Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:20 pm Post subject:

DWill:

DWill · Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:30 am Post subject: Re: A Shropshire Lad:

DWill · Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:17 am Post subject:

One memory I have connected to Housman is from the old Dick Cavett show, which the oldtimers may remember. Cavett had the great British actor John Gielgud on. Geilgud recited one of the poems from "A Shropshire Lad," "Bredon Hill" (XXII). By the time he had finished, tears were streaming down his cheeks. But like the great actor he was, he never broke up, maintaining his strong voice to the end. You have to love a man like that.

By the way, the volume of the poems I have is a 1932 edition published by Arden Book Company, which I bought for 5 cents. It has a number of lithographs by Elinore Blaisdell that do what they are intended to, add a visual dimension to these poems. It's always nice, too, to read the poems of a single poet in the separate volumes that he/she put out, rather than in collected form. If I were a book collector, poetry volumes are what I would be most interested in collecting. Think of a first edition of something like Robert Frost's North of Boston.

DWill

Penelope · Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:46 am Post subject:

Quote Saffron:

DWill · Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject: I--1887

We won't be discussing every poem, of course, but I'd like to bring up the first for several reasons.

1. It seems to provide a time-stamp for the collection. I guess I had had the impression that the era was WW I, but appartently not so.

2. Housman puts a fair amount of information into this poem, which is not easy to do while managing the rhymes. He establishes the 50th birthday of Queen Victoria; he introduces in st. 3 the soldiers who have died in foreign lands in order to save the Queen. In st. 7, he brings in the living members of regiment belting out "God Save the Queen." Three generations are joined in st. 8 in the noble attempt to save the Queen.

3. Question: Is this a full-on patriotic tribute or are we to see irony? Do the soldiers indeed assist God in saving the Queen? It might be something that I, 21st century American, will have trouble answering. I was always puzzled by God Save the Queen. It might take Penelope to straighten this out for me!

(I guess it would have been most convenient for me to post the poem, too. Sorry. I will next time.)

DWill

Saffron · Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:03 pm Post subject:

Thanks for getting us started, Will. I'm not sure we want to post the entirety of each of the poems. I think I will just copy and paste the stanzas you cite. I do think we American's will need a bit of help with this one. After listening to my daughter (just back from London) talk about a man on the Tube going on and on about how much he loves the queen and what a wonderful woman she is, I suspect the intention of the poem is straight forward patriotism/loyalty to the crown.

1887

#3

Now, when the flame they watch not towers
About the soil they trod,
Lads, we'll remember friends of ours
Who shared the work with God.

#7

"God save the Queen" we living sing,
From height to height 'tis heard;
And with the rest your voices ring,
Lads of the Fifty-third.

#8
Oh, God will save her, fear you not:
Be you the men you've been,
Get you the sons your fathers got,
And God will save the Queen.

Penelope · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:43 am Post subject:

DWill:

DWill · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject:

Penelope,
Thanks for pointing out my error. It was indeed 50 years of rule.

I am so used to expecting irony when it comes to young men laying down their lives in war--especially for the Queen, especially in a war of which no one may know the point. I think of that Wilfred Owen poem from WW I, "Dulce Et Decorum Est," which puts an entirely different spin on dying for one's country. But thanks for your view, which is that the devotion shown to the Queen/Mother Country is real.

Please don't feel you need to be objective!

DWill

DWill · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:10 pm Post subject: Gather ye Rosebuds

Since we are fortunate to have more women than men participating right now, I wondered if you have any reaction to the several "Gather ye rosebud"-type poems in the book.These are as old as the hills, of course.
They are seduction poems in which the guy usually convinces the girl to take pity on him and give in to sex. No. 5 is an exception, where the girl gives him the heave-ho, but the idea is the same. I realize I'm taking the discussion back to sex, but I suppose everything winds up there, anyway. Do you get bugged by these poems? I was going to ask why there don't seem to be any modern poems where the woman does the persuading, but with what is known about my gender's admirable readiness for action, I guess I don't have to.

No. 6 strikes a related theme.

DWill

Saffron · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: Gather ye Rosebuds

Penelope · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:48 am Post subject:

Oh Dear.....I think I must be a bit like the 'Wife of Bath'.....rather than the sweet damsel. And, furthermore, I think I probably had a lot of the 'Wife of Bath' in me when I was young and still desirable.

Nobody tried to sweet-talk me into having sex, and just as well because I know I wouldn't have taken much persuading. Also, I was never sexually harrassed at work......humph!!!!

Suffice it to say, it is fortuitous that I met Norman when I was 14 and married him when I was 18.

So, whilst I enjoy the language and music of this poem - the sentiments of the young lady are beyond me. Except that in those days, the consequences of pre-marital sex could be terrifying. Still, the tone of the poem doesn't sound like she was terrified of consequences....it sounds like she was just leading him on and teasing. What do you think?


	FORUMS	ABOUT	BOOKS	VIDEOS	TRANSCRIPTS	LINKS	BLOGS	DONATE	CONTACT