On Discipline

President Camacho · Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: On Discipline

I was in the supermarket and there was a young woman and her small child standing behind me in the checkout counter. I’m not positive, although I now have a good idea of what happened before I turned around. When I did, it was in response to some pummeling noises that caught my attention. The mother was holding the child by the arm and giving her wallops. I haven’t witnessed this in some time and I have to admit that it seemed out of place, like a custom from some lost civilization making a cameo in today’s civilized world.

I didn’t know what to feel at first. I knew what my first reaction should be, that is, I know how I would respond to someone had they asked me how I would feel in a situation such as this. I was a little nervous being so close to the ordeal and also, I have to admit, I felt proud that someone was taking responsibility for their child’s discipline. I also felt a kind of relief that’s difficult to explain.

I immediately thereafter thought of what other people would think about the situation. Surely there would be someone that would interfere and stop this woman from abusing her child. That is what people do these days, isn’t it? We’re civilized.

Maybe there would be a couple people shaking their heads in disgust or maybe there would be intense stares of condemnation or pursed lips in response to indignation felt on behalf of the child. I took a survey. I saw two shaking heads of what were unmistakably signs of disapproval (for who? why?), one person made eye contact with me, and the rest were either staring at the scene with no detectable feelings either way or paid it no noticeable attention.

I analyze the situation recurrently as it gets played in my mind every once in a while. It happened maybe a year or more ago and still it’s fresh in my minds eye. I haven’t seen a child beaten since then. I have toyed with how I feel on this issue. It’s important because it affects everyone in some way, with some more than others. The groupthink I thought I would feel was exchanged for something else when reality was manifest. Something more real, genuine, and spiritually legitimate replaced it. Something closer to truth.

The child didn’t even cry.

Ophelia · Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject:

Hm, it's difficult to picture the scene when you weren't there.

"Wallops" sounds like hitting quite a few times...(?) and what do you mean by the child not reacting, I've never seen this happening. Do you mean she was probably so used to it?

In France there is still a tradition (though it's receding) of slapping a child, once, occasionally-- though now even that is illegal.

As to people not reacting:

An English friend of mine once related a scene in the street in which she witnessed a woman hitting a child in a way she felt was abusive. My friend said she had felt awful but didn't say anything. Another adult, though, interfered and said to the mother "Don't hit this child!".
What she got for her efforts was that the other woman turned on her with "This is MY child!", followed by a flow of dreadful verbal abuse aimed at the rescuer and then dragged the child away, still hitting him.

How people react (usually don't react) in scenes taking place in places that are felt to be neutral ground like the supermarket, the train or the underground would be worth volumes of studies I think.

President Camacho · Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject:

The battery didn't appear that painful to the child. It moved her around a bit but she wasn't crying. She had to experience some form of discomfort but it wasn't enough for her to cry. Maybe it was just the child's personality or that she was accustomed to it.

I didn't know it was illegal to spank children. I don't know how I feel about that. Some might say that spankings instill discipline while others say that it lowers the child's self esteem/confidence in addition to being abusive.

This is probably another issue where culture and conformity come into play. If everyone was indoctrinated the same way then there probably would be less of a problem. I don't know if this is such a good thing though. Freedom to raise a child the way you see fit is best probably best for the human race. Those that grow up to be successful adults will probably continue to raise their children how they were raised. Others might see the benefit in how others raise their children and change as well.

I was spanked as a child. I'm not advocating children be spanked, I just think that there should be the freedom for parents to raise their children how they wish. All this of course within rational limits (no kiddie torture chambers! Laughing

).

As for interference, I think it is a cost of doing business how you please. Do I think others should interfere? That is a good question and depends largely at the situation.

I assume there are two reasons that parents hit their children, one of which I find to be correct, while the other is wrong.

These two are #1 an unemotional cause and consequence disciplinary measure and #2 anger and reprisal under the guise of discipline. Although I don't like dealing in absolutes, I think that you'd be hard pressed to find a mix of the two in any situation. Exposing emotion such as anger during what should be a rational decision to apply a form of discipline betrays #1 and reveals #2. It almost has to be one or the other.

It's easy to see when emotion is fueling a parent's spanking of a child. I think these beatings are more severe to the child physically, and what's more important, mentally.

I'm not saying that the child in my scenario didn't cry because it could necessarily expect a... excuse me if this sounds ridiculous... a calm unemotional beating, but maybe this is the case. The beating, in any case, was insufficiently scary/stressful or painful to make the child cry.

DWill · Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:12 pm Post subject:

Commacho, what was it you were saying about our species evolving, fitfully, but in an upward overall trend like the stock market? Neither what the mother did to her child nor your equivocal response to the scene suggests this progress has in fact been happening, does it? Or have you forgotten your initial reaction and now are overthinking the matter? Or, again, are you perhaps trying to get a rise from people?
DWill

President Camacho · Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:30 am Post subject:

I want to stimulate people with my posts. Why else start a thread?

I need perspective to supplement what I already know or feel. I put a question forward and expect input. Yeah, tell me what you think and you know I'll tell you what I think. It helps everyone.

Perspective

This is about methods of child management. Who agrees with what the parent did and who doesn't and why.

I think this issue has its place in the evolution of our society. The average method of raising a child represents the curve in the stock market analogy. Whether it is closer or further from our ultimate goal (progress) remains to be seen, I think.


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