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Ophelia 
Beyond Awesome
Fiction Moderator
Book Discussion Leader
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 1070
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Location: France
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 Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject:
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Penelope wrote:
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| Don't you think it is rather dangerous not to allow people to wear just what they choose? |
There's the rub: what they choose, or what the men choose for them?
I'm sure some young women can decide to wear something like that to make a political statement, but I am more interested in all those who have no choice.
For me it's like the islamic law which says that a man can take a second wife if the first one agrees.
What's the first wife's "agreement " worth when the husband has so many means of retaliation? |
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Penelope
Doctorate
Silver Contributor
Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 511
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Location: Cheshire, England
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:15 pm Post subject:
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The ladies I've seen, certainly do seem to be making a statement and don't look browbeaten.
I do agree with you though Ophelia. A number of beautiful young Asian girls have been murdered by their fathers and brothers - here and recently. For refusing to marry the person chosen for them or for choosing to marry some one considered unsuitable.
This is a major issue and of much more concern than the wearing of the Burka.
It is just that I don't want to see our basic human rights eroded. |
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WildCityWoman
Sophomore
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 281
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:20 am Post subject: Re: burqas in U.S
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Yes, Lisa - that's what I see here in Toronto too. Rarely do you see a burqa-clad woman walking with a man.
A Muslim couple lived here in our buiilding for a while (my husband manages/supers an apartment building). They were lovely people - she was such a cheerful sort. A bit sensitive though - she once knocked on our door and Jeff wasn't in the apartment - I don't know why people expect a superintendent to be in his/her apartment at all times; if they were, they wouldn't be doing their work - ha ha!
Anyway, she came out to the front lot where I was gardening to tell me that she thought Jeff was avoiding her - that he'd looked through the keyhole, saw her standing there and didn't answer the door - she thought it was because she was Muslim.
I spoke to her husband and asked him to convince her that this wasn't so.
They were from Algeria and while they were here they had a sweet little girl.
I remember she came out with her in the stroller one day, then had to rush back up to her apartment with something. She left the little girl in her stroller and asked me to watch her - I was very pleased, as this showed that she trusted me.
If he abused her in any way, we never saw it. I used to hear her yelling at him though - ha ha!
They had to make a quick move to the west coast; I don't know why, but they did. It was around Christmas time - my eldest daughter and her family live in Vancouver and I knew that's where they were going.
I asked if he could take a box of gifts out there. He said he could do that - didn't mind at all. I put them in a Christmas bag - I asked if that bothered him, and he said it certainly did not - he'd be more than glad to carry the bag.
It so happened they couldn't take the bag and box after all - they were over limit on their own luggage - they sent their friend back with the gifts and an envelope for me. He enclosed 40 dollars! He said I should use it to send the gifts by bus or purolator.
I thought that was so sweet.
But burqa's . . . actually forcing women to wear them is abusive, sure, but I think some of the women tend to wear them because they want to.
It must be hard getting used to our customs, wearing what we girls wear here.
(The way I feel about my aging body and face sometimes, I think it would be good to get a burqa - ha ha!)
| lisamarie wrote: |
Women do wear burqas in the U.S. I know where I live they sometimes do walk a few steps behind their husbands, bu tfor the most part they do go out by themselves.
Lisa |
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Ophelia
Beyond Awesome
Fiction Moderator
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Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 1070
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Location: France
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:16 am Post subject:
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| Anyway, she came out to the front lot where I was gardening to tell me that she thought Jeff was avoiding her - that he'd looked through the keyhole, saw her standing there and didn't answer the door - she thought it was because she was Muslim. |
You know Carly, I know situations like this too. I wanted to write about this in my journal but haven't come to it yet.
Sometimes I hear immigrants saying "The French are racist". When I ask for examples some of the examples are very valid cases of detestable or stupid behaviour, but others are just misinterpreted. I understand why it would be a temptation for the immigrants to interpret everything that happens to them on the basis of ethnicity or religious affiliation, but this tendency to overinterpret does a lot of harm in the end. In the case you mentioned the woman mentioned what her belief was, so you could explain, but in many cases resentment just builds up.
I have been a witness of such scenes in Tours when the immigrant had totally misinterpreted what we had both seen, this was just a non-event, and on another occasion what he had been displeased with was personal, l mean the French person not liking his conversation and not wanting to talk to him much, but the only interpretation he had for this was race (and in a way, isn't it more comfortable than facing truths like: "I talk so much about my personal life and my past girlfriends, I know I bore some people to death..."). |
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WildCityWoman
Sophomore
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 281
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:16 am Post subject:
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Well, what else do we have to go on but our personal lives; and our own individual pasts?
We can't just read books, watch movies, documentaries, etc., and figure that's how it is - that's the bottom line.
What we actually see and experience is important in drawing our conclusions.
I've spoken about racism before - about how some people automatically think non-minorities are racists here in North America. It's not fair for them to generalize like that - it's a form of racism in itself.
I speak of it so much that I think I'm heading toward writing some kind of 'paper' on the thought, but doubt it will be acceptable for publication. |
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Ophelia
Beyond Awesome
Fiction Moderator
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Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 1070
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Location: France
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:49 am Post subject:
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| Well, what else do we have to go on but our personal lives; and our own individual pasts? |
Certainly, but it's all a matter who says what to whom, and for how long, IMO.
For example, I enjoy an occasional chat my my neighbours when I walk my dogs, but the fact that I'm nice and polite doesn't mean that I enjoy the constant re-telling of some of those neighbours' life stories, or in the case of that man, his past girl friends.
I have a problem with people who only function on "monologue" mode, I avoid them if I can. Other people just try to wrestle an opportunity to talk, but with the constant monologuers in my opinion it's no use: they just stop talking for a few minutes, and just wait for an opportunity to go back to where your interruption stopped them.
Also, as the monologuers encounter a lot of people who, like me, try to run away from their boring monologues, they have developed very good techniques to make sure you stay there and listen, and a very good sense of who will be a nice victim-listener (naturally, they themselves run away from other monologuers, as they don't want to listen.)
A typical case was a colleague of mine many years ago (otherwise a good soul) who had told her stories so many times that she had resorted to actually grabbing your arm in the teacher's room to prevent you from leaving!
I sometimes wonder if I am a magnet for such people, and I certainly have had opportunity to study them and.. could write a small book about them!  |
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WildCityWoman
Sophomore
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 281
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject:
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Heh! Heh!
I have a thing with people who ask questions, and as you're trying to form an answer, they're asking more questions - ha ha! |
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theowne
Newbie
Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject:
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| I don't think it is very encouraging to race relations encountering all of these 'covered up' ladies |
"Race relations"?
"Muslim" is not a race. And even then, "Burqa-clad muslim" is not a religion. It is a culture. I've visited some of the more modern Arab cities and saw little difference in the women there and in Canada. |
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