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Ophelia  Embodiment of Reason Gold Contributor


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Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject:
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| The Thorn Birds by Colleen McCullough (another book I never wanted to end - |
Really?
At the time when it was published everybody was raving about it.
In the end I tried, and I thought it was awful.
I didn't finish it.
Those endless stories about girls falling in love with a Catholic priest, and the priest giving in/ not giving in. Grrrr! |
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ralphinlaos  Intern

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Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject:
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"Awful?" Oh, Ophelia, I am just crushed. And I thought we had a good thing going . . .
I guess you've read more books about priests and requited/unrequited love than I have - probably something to do with your being French.
O.K., I will agree to disagree - but I hope this doesn't happen too often. I only want friends who agree with me!
Yours in dismay,
Ralph
P.S.
I wonder what Vivien had to fantisize about when she was required to gaze longingly at Clark? I doubt it was her daughter. |
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Ophelia  Embodiment of Reason Gold Contributor


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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:49 am Post subject:
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| I guess you've read more books about priests and requited/unrequited love than I have - probably something to do with your being French. |
I understand how one might think this is a theme for culturally Catholic societies, but it tends to be more universal than one would expect.
When I was 16, my English teacher made us study The Power and the Glory, by Graham Greene ( Catholic priest living with a local woman in South America I think, endless guilt and remorse, leaves her in the end...).
Then there are films. The most famous one in France is "Leon Morin, priest", with Jean Paul Belmondo. Belmondo is excellent, and at least there's none of the "Shall I, shall we?" you find in the other books and films. Two young handsome people discuss theology throughout the film, she's in love with him, he doesn't care, he is only interested in saving her soul.
Want an American version?
Hitchcock' "I confess". It goes: young American man (played by Montgomery Cliff, who was perfect, serious and Romantic) goes to fight in Word War II, leaving girlfriend behind. When he returns, he's turned into a Catholic priest.
Usual romantic interest from afar, and at one stage they meet (to talk) and get caught in a storm.
There's also been a murder, the priest wants to protect the reputation of the (now married) woman, while trying to do his duty with the police about the murder...
I also happen to read detective stories.
There was one series by Margaret Coel I rather liked about a Catholic priest who turned sleuth every time one of his parishioners was murdered or was in danger-- it was a Catholic mission on an Indian reservation; he was helped by a female parishioner, who was in love with him...
Here's a link. I enjoyed the books. At least the priest, John O'Maley, is battling with the bottle as temptation rather than his parishioners.
Though it seems that most of the time (that is except for Graham Greene), the woman is the only one who is tempted by the devil and his cunning ways.
To use an American expression, writers get a lot of mileage out of this theme. http://www.margaretcoel.com/novels_raven.html |
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Ophelia  Embodiment of Reason Gold Contributor


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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:12 am Post subject:
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P.S.
I wonder what Vivien had to fantisize about when she was required to gaze longingly at Clark? I doubt it was her daughter. |
It was Lawrence Olivier (you see, women don't disappoint their fans).
I read that while the film was being shot she was always urging everybody to put a few more scenes into each day's work so the film would be over and she could go back to him. |
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ralphinlaos  Intern

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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:39 am Post subject:
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Ophelia, mon ami -
I think that the tragedy of Vivien Leigh's life was her meeting Laurence Olivier. Hers was a great passion - much greater than his - and she sublimated her life to his. So, when he left her, she went completely round the bend. I think they were both self-obsessed, but that he took himself much more seriously than she did. This is just pop psychology on my part, you understand, and may be way of the mark.
I have read biographies on both Leigh and Olivier - fascinating people, whatever their flaws.
Ophelia, have you ever read "Memo," by David O. Selznick? Mr. Selznick, producer of Gone With the Wind, Rebecca and many other great films, was a prodigious writer of memos/letters, and that's what this book is - simply a collection of his workaday memos during his time in the film industry. Gone With the Wind, from buying the book, casting, writing and re-writing, is a huge chapter in the book. It's probably out of print now, but if you ever get a chance to read it, please do. It's one of my facorite books of all-time - full lof the gossip and minutia that I thrive on.
Ralph |
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Ophelia  Embodiment of Reason Gold Contributor


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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:38 am Post subject:
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Ophelia, have you ever read "Memo," by David O. Selznick? Mr. Selznick, producer of Gone With the Wind, Rebecca and many other great films, was a prodigious writer of memos/letters, and that's what this book is - simply a collection of his workaday memos during his time in the film industry. Gone With the Wind, from buying the book, casting, writing and re-writing, is a huge chapter in the book. It's probably out of print now, but if you ever get a chance to read it, please do. It's one of my facorite books of all-time - full lof the gossip and minutia that I thrive on.
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I haven't read this, thanks for the tip Ralph.
Actually, I'll nominate you "most daring BT poster of the year".
I think before, no other BT poster, apart from me, had admitted to reading anything about stars. And only one other reader, Constance, admitted to reading -- and loving-- Harry Potter!
I've read parts from Things Fall Away Mia Farrow's autobiography.
Some of it fell under some of my interests: the medical world as seen through the eyes of the patient, and powerful men in our society, the part about Woody Allen.
I've never been a great fan of Woody's, I like some of his films-- preferably when he doesn't act in them, my favourite being "The Purple Rose of Cairo".
The way he constantly refers to rich people and their analysts in his films, and give the impression the whole thing is a circus, made me wonder.
If all she writes about him is true it's more than I wanted to know about anybody, but one thing caught my attention. At one time Woody Allen was seeing two psychiatrists, both of them every day, including Sundays!
One may think it's laughable, but the sort of ego and celf-centredness this reveals is astounding.
Also, as usual, the sky's the limit for the rich and famous.
In France, waiting lists to see a psychiatrist can be several months, and then they'll see the patient half an hour a week.
One woman I know tells me her son, in his twenties, is depressed and the psychiatrist has been seeing him once a month!
Anyway, I was hoping Mia Farrow would write about her films as well, but so far -- though i'm not reading in chronological order!--this doesn't seem to be coming. |
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ralphinlaos  Intern

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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:58 am Post subject:
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Hi Ophelia -
Oh, I think most of us have our little "guilty pleasures," in reading as well as other forms of entertainment. I'd abhor a steady diet of serious literature, just as a steady diet of the bestseller lists grows tiresome very quickly. Moderation in all things, I guess.
I enjoy biography, more than autobiography. I really put little trust in what a person writes about him/herself. An unbiased view from a good biographer probably contains more of the real story. I suppose there are exceptions, but I think they are rare. Can you think of a biography which you thought was really candid and truthful, warts and all? I'm sure I will as soon as I post this, but right now . . .
I hear that Woody Allen has been a real nut-case for his entire adult life. And Mia's more than a little strange. When I first went to New York City, I worked for three days as an extra on Woody's film, Radio Days. He was very nice to all of us, but totally focused on his work - not interested in making friends with any of us. He's still around New York with Sung-Yi (I think that's her name, isn't it?) That marriage seems to have worked, all that notoriety probably kept Woody on the couch for several more years.
Psychiatry, in America, is a game played by the rich and famous. If you have lots of money, you see a psychiatrist several times a week. If you're one of the unwashed masses, you talk to your friends. We all want siomeone to listen, don't we?
I've heard that Mia's book is quite good, but I've never come across it in my quest for somethng to read. Remember Michael Crawford, famed Phantom of the Opera? I read his biography recently - lengthy and uninteresting - and dull (the worst sin of all).
I'd like to read a really good biography of Ralph Richardson; he was one of my favorites and I've heard some wonderful stories about him over the years - an excentric, fascinating man who lived a long and happy life.
Are you currently teaching, Ophelia? On the college level?
Ralph |
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Ophelia  Embodiment of Reason Gold Contributor


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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:05 pm Post subject:
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| I enjoy biography, more than autobiography. I really put little trust in what a person writes about him/herself. An unbiased view from a good biographer probably contains more of the real story. I suppose there are exceptions, but I think they are rare. Can you think of a biography which you thought was really candid and truthful, warts and all? |
Not really, but "entirely truthful" or telling the whole truth" is not necessarily what I'm looking for. I can learn from what the person presents as being the truth, or some things they mention in passing that they would have no particular interest in embellishing or inventing.
I know that I'm not getting the full picture...about actors so far I haven't been interested enough in seeking biographies as well to strike a balance.
Actually, the one biography I read recently was one of Kevin Kostner's, and it was 100 % dull.
As for Mia Farrows ' autobiography, it's not bad, but it depends what you want. It's mostly about her children-- this is obviously the focus of her life,
and as there are many children, many of whom were adopted, this means many stories, most of them very unusual.
Then when it comes to her films, you get 5 lines about "The Great Gatsby", in which you learn:
- that she was pregnant .
- that she didn't like the wig they gave her.
- that Robert Redford is such a good guy!
This is amazing. You'd think it didn't matter to her one way or another what the films were about. Yet some of them are really meaningful, like " Rosemary's Baby". |
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Ophelia  Embodiment of Reason Gold Contributor


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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:34 pm Post subject:
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I'm a secondary school teacher, I work in a Lycée, with 16 to 18 year olds. I'm on a very unusual schedule this year so this gives me a lot of free time.
| Quote: |
| Psychiatry, in America, is a game played by the rich and famous. If you have lots of money, you see a psychiatrist several times a week. If you're one of the unwashed masses, you talk to your friends. We all want someone to listen, don't we? |
One of the problems is that sometimes people's only idea of a psychiatrist's work is what you see in films like Woody Allen's, and you probably think it is as useful as horse races.
And then yes, talking to your friends is the solution to many issues, but some problems need access to professionals and also the sad truth is that, in case of depression or other psychological problems, people's "friends" tend to vanish all of a sudden, or perhaps part of the person's problems is that he was isolated in the first place.
I suspect that psychiatrists are playing a more and more important part in western societies-- in France it's clear, the Catholic priests left and people turned to psychiatrists...Hmm, perhaps that would be another posting topic for me:
"The priest, the psychiatrist and the French people." |
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Constance963  Intern

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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:19 am Post subject:
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| Ophelia wrote: |
I think before, no other BT poster, apart from me, had admitted to reading anything about stars. And only one other reader, Constance, admitted to reading -- and loving-- Harry Potter!
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Yep, I admit I really enjoy Harry Potter. The books remind me of the Roald Dahl books I loved as a child...the "put upon" child who overcomes adult oppression was a big theme in those books which is echoed in Harry Potter. Plus anything magical is fun to me  |
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JohnShadeFan Eligible to vote!
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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject:
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Oh, I love lists like this!
I'm going to pick 5 that I've read recently (past six months or so).
Babbit-Sinclair Lewis-Funny, tragic, and as relevant today as it was then.
The Castle-Kafka-A feast. What IS the Castle? You can pick any number of things and find a ton of textual support, which, in this case, is a strength.
Winesburg, Ohio-Sherwood Anderson- I'm going to call this a novel. It was a difficult, aching read, only because it was so true.
Persuasion-Austen- Perhaps my fav. A tight plot, no extraneous scenes/characters, clear thematic development. Her last completed book before her death, making every reader afterwards wonder "What would have happened if she had lived?"
As I Lay Dying- The mixture of pathos and comedy is masterful. Insane.
ps-This is my first post. Do I get anything? |
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ralphinlaos  Intern

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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:25 am Post subject:
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Yes, John - you get a great big "Hello and welcome" from all of us!
Babbitt and Winesburg and As I Lay Dying - boy, do these bring back old memories. I haven't read (or re-read) any in the past twenty years, but I remember them all being terrific books. Maybe I'll be able to find an old paperback one of these days.
Have you ever read any of John Cain's novels (The Postman Always Rings Twice, Mildred Pierce, etc.?) They're still as interesting and absorbing as when he wrote them.
And Constance -
Raold Dahl was always one of my favorite writers - I think I've read everything he's ever written (including his children's books). But he didn't do right by Patricia Neal, did he?
I've never seen a Harry Potter book - but I thought that everyone loved them. I'd like to see her first one, read that, and then go on (or not) from there.
Ralph |
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Ophelia  Embodiment of Reason Gold Contributor


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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:25 am Post subject:
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I'm going to pick 5 that I've read recently (past six months or so).
Babbit-Sinclair Lewis-Funny, tragic, and as relevant today as it was then.
The Castle-Kafka-A feast. What IS the Castle? You can pick any number of things and find a ton of textual support, which, in this case, is a strength.
Winesburg, Ohio-Sherwood Anderson- I'm going to call this a novel. It was a difficult, aching read, only because it was so true.
Persuasion-Austen- Perhaps my fav. A tight plot, no extraneous scenes/characters, clear thematic development. Her last completed book before her death, making every reader afterwards wonder "What would have happened if she had lived?"
As I Lay Dying- The mixture of pathos and comedy is masterful. Insane.
ps-This is my first post. Do I get anything? |
Hello John, and welcome to Booktalk!
You seem to be a very constant reader-- literature, from the five books you've mentioned.
You might want to have a look at our fiction forum: the main page tells you about the three discussions you can join, the current one being "No Country for Old Men".
I look forward to seeing you there and discussing books with you.
Also, would you like to write an introduction in the "Introduce yourself" threads and to tell us a little about yourself?
See you soon in our forums I hope.
And about your question, anyone can get free books from Chris by following the instructions he gives, but Ralph, why don't you take him up on his offer? |
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ralphinlaos  Intern

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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:19 am Post subject:
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What offer is that, Ophelia? Did I miss something? Does Chris have a program in which I can win books? Where?
I'm still wandering around this site, finding a little more everyday.
Thanks,
Ralph |
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Ophelia  Embodiment of Reason Gold Contributor


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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:58 am Post subject:
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What offer is that, Ophelia? Did I miss something? Does Chris have a program in which I can win books? Where?
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Yes, Ralph, I was wondering when you would catch up with this offer.
There are several offers of Chris's.
One is the one that is explained in the rolling scroll to, the right of this page.
You need to tell people about BT, (so this sounds like I would fit the bill), but it also says you've got to be effective, and so far I haven't convinced anyone from the outside world.
At one time Chris offered books to help him with some work with links, but I don't think he is still interested in that. I had offered to help, although I wasn't interested in free books-- I prefer if they're sent to someone that really needs them-- but I think it turned out Chris decided to do the work himself.
The list of books available can be seen in the Chamber, which you can only enter if you have written 50 posts.
I can copy that list for you if you like.
But I think the first thing to do would be to e-mail Chris and ask him if the current offer about books (the one on the scroll) is the only one standing and to redirect you to the previous offers that are still valid, if any.
I am going to do the same thing as Penelope-- I always have more books than can find room in my flat or my cellar, and every few months I give some to a charity-- honestly I'm not quite sure what they do with the books in English-- so I'll send you some of the outgoing books next time I get organized and go on a clearance session.
So, in case you can't convince half of Laos to become BT members, books will still be on their way. |
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