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| Do you believe in life after death? |
| yes |
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33% |
[ 5 ] |
| no |
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66% |
[ 10 ] |
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| Total Votes : 15 |
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| Author |
Message |
Constance963 
Intern
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 165
Gender: 
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 Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:30 am Post subject:
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| Mr. Pessimistic wrote: |
| Constance963 wrote: |
I am energy, therefore I can be neither created nor destroyed. I can only change form.........  |
This is the only trek into any kind of 'spiritual' realm I can accept. It is true after all. The energy and matter that makes us goes on.
Mr. P. |
Ha ha, thanks Mr. P. I guess science can be "spiritual" depending on how you look at it. |
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Mr. Pessimistic
Assistant Professor
Silver Contributor
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 3443
Gender: 
Location: NJ - www.myspace.com/mrpessimistic
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:22 am Post subject:
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| Constance963 wrote: |
Ha ha, thanks Mr. P. I guess science can be "spiritual" depending on how you look at it. |
Oh absolutely! I agree with that and this is the point many people without religion, spirituality and god try to explain to those that think us devoid of any deep understanding of existence. In fact, I think there is so much MORE to amaze that comes from science and a true understanding of the world as compared to what comes from something that is for all intents just myth and made up stories.
Mr. P. |
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Constance963
Intern
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 165
Gender:
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:11 am Post subject:
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| Science truly can be amazing. I think whether you fall into the realm of the religious or into the realm of the scientific, existance itself intrigues everyone. No matter what my beliefs, I am still amazed at the birth of a baby or at a seed growing into a tree. |
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Penelope
Amazingly Intelligent
Silver Contributor
Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 689
Gender:
Location: Cheshire, England
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:58 am Post subject:
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I agree, it is the most wonderful thing to experience.
BUT - what about when the baby is born - not perfect....malformed in fact.. what happens when it is is your own baby....and you feel 'relief' as much as grief when that baby dies.
That is when you need to find some spiritual hand to hold......that is when you know you don't have the inner resources and need help and assurance from somewhere 'other'. |
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Mr. Pessimistic
Assistant Professor
Silver Contributor
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 3443
Gender:
Location: NJ - www.myspace.com/mrpessimistic
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:10 pm Post subject:
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| Penelope wrote: |
I agree, it is the most wonderful thing to experience.
BUT - what about when the baby is born - not perfect....malformed in fact.. what happens when it is is your own baby....and you feel 'relief' as much as grief when that baby dies.
That is when you need to find some spiritual hand to hold......that is when you know you don't have the inner resources and need help and assurance from somewhere 'other'. |
That is also just not true though...it is an assertion based on your emotional makeup0 maybe, but I know plenty of people, myself included, that does NOT need a 'spiritual hand' to help us carry on.
Mr. P. |
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lawrenceindestin
Gaining experience
Gold Contributor
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 92
Gender:
Location: Miramar Beach FL
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject:
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Mr. P
I was hoping you would read my blog (Lawrenceindestin), and post a comment. I've enjoyed reading your thoughts. I hope you find my essay interesting. Thanks, Lawrenceindestin. |
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Constance963
Intern
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 165
Gender:
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:42 pm Post subject:
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| Penelope wrote: |
I agree, it is the most wonderful thing to experience.
BUT - what about when the baby is born - not perfect....malformed in fact.. what happens when it is is your own baby....and you feel 'relief' as much as grief when that baby dies.
That is when you need to find some spiritual hand to hold......that is when you know you don't have the inner resources and need help and assurance from somewhere 'other'. |
Hi Penelope,
I do understand what you are saying here. My point was just that I don't think that belief or non-belief in God makes the wonders of life any more or less amazing.
Losing a child is horrible - unfortunately I know several people who have -and finding peace is difficult for all of them, but I can't generalize for all of them because they each handled their tragedy a different way. Some people do indeed need to find some kind of spiritual hand to hold however, others do not. |
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Mr. Pessimistic
Assistant Professor
Silver Contributor
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 3443
Gender:
Location: NJ - www.myspace.com/mrpessimistic
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject:
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| lawrenceindestin wrote: |
Mr. P
I was hoping you would read my blog (Lawrenceindestin), and post a comment. I've enjoyed reading your thoughts. I hope you find my essay interesting. Thanks, Lawrenceindestin. |
I will check it out shortly. I have been crazy buzy for any lengthy reading/posting here. Work, volunteer stuff, sleep....
I have only finished ONE book this year! That stinks, but I am just too busy or tired lately.
Mr. P. |
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lawrenceindestin
Gaining experience
Gold Contributor
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 92
Gender:
Location: Miramar Beach FL
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:55 pm Post subject:
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Roger that!
The reason I asked you to look at it is my essay deals with the subject of this topic in greater detail than posting would permit. Anyone posting here is also welcome to see what I had to say and why I said it. Best wishes, Lawrenceindestin |
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Frank 013
Beyond Awesome
BookTalk.org Moderator
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 1053
Gender:
Location: NY
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:45 pm Post subject:
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| Quote: |
Penelope
BUT - what about when the baby is born - not perfect... malformed in fact… what happens when it is your own baby... and you feel 'relief' as much as grief when that baby dies.
That is when you need to find some spiritual hand to hold... that is when you know you don't have the inner resources and need help and assurance from somewhere 'other'. |
Penelope, many of the things you say are common assertions of the church and religious believers in general; they also, when looked at honestly, seem to be false.
I would say that it is impossible to say for certain but from the studies I have seen the religious seem to be more likely to have emotional problems, and respond worse to those problems then their secular counterparts, for example… suicide is more common among the religious than among the non-religious despite the assertion that it is a unforgivable sin.
The question as I see it is… is this failing a result of people’s religious coddling, (The denial of the crisis because they are good worshipers and god would not do that to them?) or are those types of people drawn to religion because religions offer the support that those people need and cannot find within themselves?
Can we be certain that in the absence of religion those same people would have failed in life, or is it possible that they might have found the inner strength but were denied that opportunity?
If the latter is true, and I think it is for at least some people, isn’t religion doing those people a disservice?
This is a hard question to answer because the vast majority of believers are indoctrinated long before their strength as individuals can be assessed. Furthermore religions actively teach that what they offer is needed, and that people without religion are lacking in some manner.
If religion offers strength why is it that the religious tend to be the least capable of dealing with adversity?
To go back to your example of the malformed baby… from a secular perspective random mutation is to be expected from time to time and death is natural. The simultaneous grief and relief of the baby’s death are both natural. People are capable of recognizing the fact that the infant was probably spared tremendous hardship and ridicule which might have made its quality of life non existent. On the other hand it was still an innocent and not deserving of such a short and miserable existence.
If we humans had any say in the matter every baby would be born perfect with the opportunity for a successful and happy life. If there is a god he/she seems to be lacking in that basic morality.
I have to ask, is an entity so lacking in basic morality worthy of worship?
Later |
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