Penelope, DWill and Robert Tulip about religious belief.

DWill · Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:13 am Post subject:

Frank 013,
You are a capable advocate for your position. I'm not sure that there isn't, beyond all the evidence, some insuperable tempermental/philosophic barrier that will prevent us from agreeing. But you have given food for thought, and I will continue to mull over these things and review the evidence. Now, though, time for a break!

Will

Frank 013 · Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject:

Penelope · Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject:

I hope you will keep in touch DWill. Rather pessimistic posts from you, here and there, today.

Thanks Frank.

Frank 013 · Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject:

Penelope,

I don’t want to speak for Will but the things we are discussing can be earth shattering for some people, especially when they begin to realize that what has been taught to them all of their life was probably a lie.

Now in Will’s case he does not seem to be a traditional theist, but he had apparently accepted some of the propaganda that Christianity touts.

If Will needs some time to process this new information and confirm it through his own research then I have no problem giving him that opportunity. I don’t really see anything specifically pessimistic about his approach, just cautious skepticism, and when dealing with subjects like these that caution and skepticism are natural.

Of course I realize I could be completely off the mark here… that’s really for Will to say.

Later

Penelope · Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:56 am Post subject:

You are right Frank in the case of this discussion, that it does take some assimilating. But I was not only referring to this post from DWill - but another one also, where he is talking about reading up the effects of global warming.

We try to take one day at a time....but sometimes several days attack us at once!!!! Wink

WildCityWoman · Graduate Student Joined: 13 Jan 2008 Posts: 418 Gender:

QUOTE

Penelope said . . . I don't agree 100% with the Salvation Army - but they are organised to give practical help - and I know that they do it for the same reasons as I want to do it. And they let me help, they don't insist that I accept all of their dogma.

UNQUOTE

I dunno' about that . . . I've been involved with the Salvation Army a few times in my life.

At age 8, I took a pledge never to drink or smoke - ridicuclous, my parents said - why would they expect an 8 year old to make such a pledge. But they shrugged it off - I went to afternoon Sunday school there, simply because I enjoyed it.

We were United protestants - I went to the United Church Sunday school in the morning - the Salvation Army in the afternoon and sometimes enjoyed an event at the Anglican church!

Quite a mix - the only church my mother didn't like me going to was Baptist - I don't know why - I loved the Happy Hour session on Friday night at Waverly Baptist - I used to drop in after choir practice at the Bellefair United.

My parents weren't too amused with Pentecostal either - a school friend once got me interested in their dogma - her aunt had given her a lot of material and it was pretty scary - the fire and brimstone stuff.

I stayed up a whole night worrying about it - my mother went over to the girl's mother and told her about it - her mother put a stop to the aunt tutoring her daughter in the faith too.

Anyway, Penelope - about the SA . . . they are very good people - but they are 'adamant' in their faith.

In 1994 I took my formal computer training - the old WP 4.9 - just before windows. The course was funded by Employment Canada - a social worker got me into it. It was 18 weeks long - I loved it!

The school itself was 'administered' by the Salvation Army - they insisted on that religion being first and foremost - when the phone was answered it was:

Good Afternoon! Salvation Army Work Training . . . etc. I forget how the whole title went - but it was ridiculous.

When it came time to go out on 'interviews' for jobs, you'd have it on your resume that you took this computer training - you gotta' put something, where else have you been for the last 18 weeks, eh?

We students often felt put off with this business of the phone being answered that way when prospective employers phone for a 'work/school reference'.

We felt they might think we had been living in some fleabag hostel downtown because of this.

We, of course, didn't look at it this way ourselves - we'd appreciate the 18 weeks training in a work-environment teaching program and it certainly wasn't any fleabag homeless hangout - it was an up-to-date, modern office environment there!

But we were right in our concerns - a lot of people do assume that anything the 'Sally Ann' runs is strictly charity and if you're there, you're down and out, therefore qualified for nothing.

-----------------------

About their imposing their own religion on you . . . well, religion was taught for about an hour once a week - the Brigadier would come in and speak to the classes and lead us in prayer.

Some people resented that - and you couldn't blame them really - a lot of the people were 'refugees', running from their countries - they were Muslims! And it must have been an affront to them to have 'our religion' shoved down their throats in this way.

They, btw, most of them, were quiet people who said very little about how things were run - a lot of them were just too scared they might be sent back to their own country if they didn't co-operate with the employment counsellors.

(One of the girls cried in my arms - I'd been elected to help her write a story with the computer program - that was one of our assignments - her English wasn't up to par and she was afraid she'd 'fail' the assignment and get sent back - geesh! That was tough going - she did ok though)

I thought it was kinda' silly to be including religious training in our program, but that's how the Salvation Army people are - if they're involved in anything, even if they're being paid to run a program, they figure they've got a right to make you attend meetings where they preach 'their thing'.

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I once went through a bad time in my life - I stayed, for a few weeks, in a spiritual recovery home - it was the Salvation Army who provided it.

It was a wonderful place - if you weren't out working somewhere, you had to attend chapel - I didn't mind at all - I enjoyed going to chapel and enjoyed singing the old hymns - even played the piano a bit there.

But there were girls staying there who were not Christian - one was Jewish -she didn't like being made to sit in for chapel sessions twice a day. But they made her do it.

I didn't think that was right.

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All in all, I respect the Salvation Army - they are a wonderful organization and are helpful to those who are down and out. But they can be what's looked at as being 'dogmatic'.

WildCityWoman · Graduate Student Joined: 13 Jan 2008 Posts: 418 Gender:

Frank?

What is it you have in your arms, in the picture you've used for your avatar?

Just curious . . .


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