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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: XI- HD, depression and PICS of the Congo.
XI- HD, depression and PICS of the Congo.
Penelope wrote:
"It is such a bleak book - and although I admire the technique - I really don't view life like Conrad - I have enjoyed it immensely but I do think it is the work of a depressive character. I like the character Marlowe, but I felt I was listening to a depressed friend, getting it all off his chest. "
1-Do you associate HD with depression?
Is Marlow a depressive character?
2- As I was considering this, I found wonderful pictures of the Congo River
(go down to the bottom of the page to see the Congo Falls as well).
Note: after reading Robert and Dwill 's feedback about the link below:
the link only seems to work for a short time.
As I think those photos are important: you can access themm by googling:
XI- HD, depression and PICS of the Congo. 1-Do you associate HD with depression? Is Marlow a depressive character?
2- As I was considering this, I found wonderful pictures of the Congo River (go down to the bottom of the page to see the Congo Falls as well). http://hubpages.com/hub/Heart-of-Darknesshttp://hubpages.com/hub/Heart -of-Darkness
Any comments about the photos in relation to the novella?
This has to be about the most depressing book you could read. Marlow is a flinty realist, stoically observing the horror of colonialism with no power to do anything about it. Relentless evil is such a bummer. The things I find most depressing in the book are the awful ignorance on the part of most of those cheerily inflicting the greatest destruction, the knowledge of Kurtz – how such an intelligent man could find himself in such a hellish charnel house is sadly believable, and the sense, via Apocalypse Now and the Iraq War, that humanity has learnt very little since Conrad’s day. A sophisticated understanding of the development agenda remains very rare and highly contested. But, depression can be redemptive. Without understanding we are condemned to repeat the mistakes of the past. I couldn’t access the Congo photos.
I have to admit that whilst I was reading this book, I thought, the narrator might have noticed and mentioned something breathtakingly beautiful about the scenery. That is why I thought it seemed like the discription of a nightmare.
Even if you felt lost in an alien environment - usually you see, hear or feel something that gives you joy - or at least makes you laugh!!
Only in a nightmare would you perceive nothing but fear on such a journey.
Without understanding we are condemned to repeat the mistakes of the past.
Now, I am not being racist - I think I am probably being 'age-ist'
It srikes me that 'some' aspects of life have to be experienced to be understood.....well, I certainly don't think I understand much....the older I get the less I know....however, I do know that some days, I get up and I can only see the weeds in the garden and the dust in the house. Other days, all that doesn't matter, I can see the joy and beauty of it all.
I can empathise with Conrad (Marlowe) - and I can certainly admire his narrative style - but he does seem to have lost his joy. As you say, when diabolical heartless, cruelty seems relentless, it is a ' bummer'' (your word Robert) but usually there is some small thing to lift the spirit. I don't think we should accept the 'Heart of Darkness' in us all - but seek the 'Soul of Light' in us all. Ivory.....what a useless, cruel, stupid thing seek!
Perhaps he should have been examining his motives?
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:42 pm Post subject: HD and depression
I haven't even had a chance yet to reread all of this novella. I wasn't able to open the pictures, but great idea to provide them. I imagine they do show quite a different aspect of the Congo River area than we see in the book? As to the reason for the gloom, could it be that Conrad has written a moral tale, a little allegorical even, in which both setting and some of the people are shown in single aspects? I think of Hawthorne's techniques as being slightly similar. We know that it really can't be true that the Congo is threatening, putrefying, and dark all the time. We know it can't be true that all the native people are dedgraded, stripped of humanity. But that is how Conrad shows them to us, perhaps in order to tell his moral tale most powerfully.
Conrad may have taken a journey similar to Marlowe's, but I tend not to think this book reflects his actual experience as much as that experience transmuted to art.
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject: rhetoric
About rhetoric:
This is a very general term. I've looked up my literary term reference books (which incidentally hadn't happened on my shelves for a long time) and skanned through the many pages:
"Rhetoric is the art of using language for persuasion, in speaking or writing"
(J A Cuddon, A Dictionary of Literary Terms)
When studying twentieth century fiction, the term is used mostly as rhetorical figures, which takes us to figurative language and figures of speech.
Ah, you see, I thought rhetoric meant - overstating and dramatising your argument in order to persuade people.
Some of our MP's (usually Welshmen) are accused of using 'pure rhetoric' to argue their case in parliament.
They have wonderful voices, usually, and Welsh is a delightful accent to my ears. You know - Dylan Thomas:- Rage, Rage against the dying of the light - is that not an example of rhetoric?
