Krumping? ...what do you think about it?

irishrosem · Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:15 pm Post subject:

Now, hopefully, turning this discussion to something ever so much more interesting—to me at least. I’ve seen a lot of urban breakdancing, and a bit of krumping, largely in Manhattan’s subways. I find that, though the breakdancing is usually more exciting to watch, because of the tricks that are incorporated, krumping seems to better use physical expression to convey a message. Now dance, through the ages, is largely meant to tell a story, or convey an emotion. As has been addressed already in this thread, krumping is usually energetic, uninhibited, rapid movement, often used to express anger. So my question is—who are the dancers (those wishing to express anger); who is the intended audience; and why anger?

I know the apparently obvious answer is that krumping attracts both dancers and audience from the same group—disenfranchised, probably largely black, youth. Which explains the anger. But part of me believes that not all those who participate in the krumping community are actually poor youth. My guess is that at least part of the community comes from middle-class backgrounds. And, as I said, I’ve been in the audience during a krumping performance, more than once, and my fellow audience members appeared just as middle-class as I. I think there must be more to it than young, angry kids expressing their anger about disenfranchisement. Any thoughts?

Frank 013 · Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:23 pm Post subject:

I would expect some of the audience is watching simply out of curiosity, weather you like the style of dance or not it is certainly a head turner.

Later

MadArchitect · Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject:

And I would add that the middle-class audience member's curiosity is evidence that krumping is at least mildly successful. If the point of krumping is expression, then drawing an audience is critical. Drawing an audience of your peers is usually the first step -- establishing the credibility of the dance form as expressing this or that social circumstance -- but it's a very limited step compared to that of gaining visibility outside of your peer group.

irishrosem · Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject:

But I think it might, or could be, more than just a mere curiosity. If it were, I’d expect I would be more intrigued by breakdancing than by the krumping. At least, that would be my guess. And I think that’s partly what Mad might be getting at when he speaks to the success of drawing an audience outside the peer group.

As I said, I didn’t particularly like very much in the first video, though there were some good pieces. I think part of that is watching it on the screen is very different than watching it standing in an impromptu crowd, with music echoing off the concrete walls of the subway tunnels. Watching those street performances can be electrifying in a way that going to theater is not. It’s pure, it’s passionate, it’s amateur, it’s aggressive. But I’m not quite sure why it speaks to me. But krumping certainly speaks to me in a way that a lot of professional dance that I have seen, for the most part, does not. And yet, I’m not a disenfranchised youth.

Frank 013 · Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:47 pm Post subject:

Break dancing I get, I have been watching that since its inception. But the krumping… the only reason I would stop to watch that would be to check if any of the dancers needed medical attention (thinking that they were stroke victims) Laughing

Later

MadArchitect · Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject:

Don't you mean seizure victims, Frank? Not that it's amusing either way.

But to get back to the point, what is it that you get about break dancing? The athleticism involved can be impressive, but I feel like I get krumping in a way that I don't with break dancing. I don't know what break dancing is about (which is probably why it seems to be coming back as a novelty more than anything else), but with krumping, I almost immediately recognize the posturing, and can draw a connection between krumping and the sort of cultural frustration that might have given rise to the style. Break dancing's cool and all, but what does it mean?

irishrosem · Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject:

Frank 013 · Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:19 pm Post subject:

Frank 013 · Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:23 am Post subject:

Something occurred to me last night at work, as a person somewhat familiar with violence I suspect that krumping moves me differently than others.

The angry, threatening, violent, spastic flailing associated with krumping does remind me of something; it reminds me of the violence I have seen in the past, and the violence I will likely see in the future.

(Keeping my profession in mind) The next time I see someone acting out like that the flow of blood is likely going to follow, possibly mine; it could also mean someone’s death or that I be required to kill.

So no I do not see anything particularly artful about it and I certainly would not call it beautiful.

Later

irishrosem · Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:02 am Post subject:

Frank, what you’ve described here is exactly what the artists I know strive for. Not to say they want their art to make you fearful of impending violence, per se. But they want their work to affect their audience, to speak to their audience’s lives in a very real way. That’s apparently what krumping does for you. And you’ve described how krumping touches you so much more successfully than I was able to do in my attempts at description. Your violent background makes you able to relate to the artist, you experience the expression of violent emotion differently than others who have not experienced violence, or that type of violence. And the artist, in expressing that emotion, is hoping to draw a relationship with his audience; and you, having comparable experiences, are able to connect with the artist. It's because of your common experience that you are able to relate to the artist in the personal way that the artist, I am almost certain, is trying to elicit from at least some of the audience. That type of emotional response to art is beautiful.

Art isn’t always pretty flowers. Nor is it always meant to make you feel blithely happy. Sometimes it is powerful, and uncomfortable, and affecting. Many artists aren’t trying to create something that is only aesthetically pleasing. They are trying to create something that makes the audience think, and feel, and that elicits a powerfully, personal response. That’s precisely what it sounds like krumping did for you.

Now that doesn’t mean the personal response is always welcomed, sometimes it is just too distressing to be withstood. But, I’d argue that it’s still art. In fact, in certain instances, I’d argue that’s the best art of all.

MadArchitect · Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:23 am Post subject:

irishrosem · Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:12 pm Post subject:

And, considering what you wrote here Mad, do you think krumping might help these artists to avoid engaging in the violence they might otherwise, considering some of the neighborhoods or situations in which they live?

Frank 013 · Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:39 pm Post subject:

MadArchitect · Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:17 am Post subject:


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