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Frank 013 
Beyond Awesome
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 Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:47 pm Post subject:
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Break dancing I get, I have been watching that since its inception. But the krumping… the only reason I would stop to watch that would be to check if any of the dancers needed medical attention (thinking that they were stroke victims) 
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MadArchitect
Joined: 14 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject:
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Don't you mean seizure victims, Frank? Not that it's amusing either way.
But to get back to the point, what is it that you get about break dancing? The athleticism involved can be impressive, but I feel like I get krumping in a way that I don't with break dancing. I don't know what break dancing is about (which is probably why it seems to be coming back as a novelty more than anything else), but with krumping, I almost immediately recognize the posturing, and can draw a connection between krumping and the sort of cultural frustration that might have given rise to the style. Break dancing's cool and all, but what does it mean? |
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irishrosem
Doctorate
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 536
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject:
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| Mad wrote: |
| ...but I feel like I get krumping in a way that I don't with break dancing. |
I agree, Mad. And in a way that makes krumping more like traditional dance than breakdancing is. Unless, and this is totally possible because I don’t know much about either, breakdancing has some meaning that I’m just missing. But, krumping does seem to express emotion and evokes responses in a way that breakdancing does not. I agree with you, the “message” as it were is much more apparent in krumping.
In fact, I might go so far to say that breakdancing is more reminiscent of gymnastics than it is dance. Whereas, krumping incorporates all the important elements of dance as an art form. |
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Frank 013
Beyond Awesome
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:19 pm Post subject:
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| Quote: |
Mad
Don't you mean seizure victims, Frank? Not that it's amusing either way. |
Your right I should have been more sensitive to the Stroke victims (having seizures). I know that they would be embarrassed to be compared to krumpers.
| Quote: |
Mad
I don't know what break dancing is about (which is probably why it seems to be coming back as a novelty more than anything else), but with krumping, I almost immediately recognize the posturing, and can draw a connection between krumping and the sort of cultural frustration that might have given rise to the style. Break dancing's cool and all, but what does it mean? |
Break dancing is cool, why does it have to be about anything?
Just because Krumping is making a statement doesn’t make it art, and it certainly doesn’t make it special or worthy of praise. I don’t think Break Dancing is art either, just that it takes some real skill.
If you like krumping that’s fine, Chris likes it too, but that should not earn it any special respect from me.
Lastly, you being super critical of my joking around won’t make the krumping look any better either.
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Frank 013
Beyond Awesome
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:23 am Post subject:
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Something occurred to me last night at work, as a person somewhat familiar with violence I suspect that krumping moves me differently than others.
The angry, threatening, violent, spastic flailing associated with krumping does remind me of something; it reminds me of the violence I have seen in the past, and the violence I will likely see in the future.
(Keeping my profession in mind) The next time I see someone acting out like that the flow of blood is likely going to follow, possibly mine; it could also mean someone’s death or that I be required to kill.
So no I do not see anything particularly artful about it and I certainly would not call it beautiful.
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irishrosem
Doctorate
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:02 am Post subject:
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Frank, what you’ve described here is exactly what the artists I know strive for. Not to say they want their art to make you fearful of impending violence, per se. But they want their work to affect their audience, to speak to their audience’s lives in a very real way. That’s apparently what krumping does for you. And you’ve described how krumping touches you so much more successfully than I was able to do in my attempts at description. Your violent background makes you able to relate to the artist, you experience the expression of violent emotion differently than others who have not experienced violence, or that type of violence. And the artist, in expressing that emotion, is hoping to draw a relationship with his audience; and you, having comparable experiences, are able to connect with the artist. It's because of your common experience that you are able to relate to the artist in the personal way that the artist, I am almost certain, is trying to elicit from at least some of the audience. That type of emotional response to art is beautiful.
Art isn’t always pretty flowers. Nor is it always meant to make you feel blithely happy. Sometimes it is powerful, and uncomfortable, and affecting. Many artists aren’t trying to create something that is only aesthetically pleasing. They are trying to create something that makes the audience think, and feel, and that elicits a powerfully, personal response. That’s precisely what it sounds like krumping did for you.
Now that doesn’t mean the personal response is always welcomed, sometimes it is just too distressing to be withstood. But, I’d argue that it’s still art. In fact, in certain instances, I’d argue that’s the best art of all. |
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MadArchitect
Joined: 14 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:23 am Post subject:
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| Quote: |
| Break dancing is cool, why does it have to be about anything? |
I suppose it doesn't. But when you said you "get" break dancing, I figured you understood something about the cultural context that gave rise to it. If you don't, that's fine. I was just looking for some hint that would give me the same insight into breaking that I got right away with krumping.
| Quote: |
| Just because Krumping is making a statement doesn’t make it art, and it certainly doesn’t make it special or worthy of praise. |
What would make it art, to your mind? Me, I've given up on whatever distinctions I used to employ to deny something I didn't particularly like or appreciate the name of art.
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| If you like krumping that’s fine, Chris likes it too, but that should not earn it any special respect from me. |
I'm not trying to get you to respect it. But I am interested in why one person finds it interesting or compelling, and why another does not. Discussion doesn't have to be about changing somebody's mind.
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| Lastly, you being super critical of my joking around won’t make the krumping look any better either. |
I don't think my comments really qualify as "super critical." What's going on around here lately? It seems like people have been incredibly sensitive for no reason at all.
And no, I don't expect my mild criticism of your jokes to have any effect at all on anyone's opinion of krumping. I'd be pretty disappointed if it did.
Ahem. Now that we've gotten all of that out of the way...
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| The angry, threatening, violent, spastic flailing associated with krumping does remind me of something; it reminds me of the violence I have seen in the past, and the violence I will likely see in the future. |
That, I think, is a highly useful comment, and I wish that it had appeared earlier in the discussion. It does help my understand why your reaction might be so different to ours. I also associate krumping with the sort of violence that I've seen (and, on occasion, been involved with) around the city, but my environment isn't as saturated with violent offenders as is the environment you walk into on a daily basis. The difference, I suppose, is palpable.
But let me ask you a follow up question? Do you think that association would remain if you were to find a less dangerous job and come across krumping in a city park somewhere? I ask because, while krumping does remind me of the sort of posturing and defiance that sometimes leads to violence, the dance itself doesn't make me nervous. These appear to be kids having fun, perhaps even working out their frustrations by making those violent gestures into a different kind of display. |
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irishrosem
Doctorate
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 536
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:12 pm Post subject:
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| And, considering what you wrote here Mad, do you think krumping might help these artists to avoid engaging in the violence they might otherwise, considering some of the neighborhoods or situations in which they live? |
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Frank 013
Beyond Awesome
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:39 pm Post subject:
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Rose
It's because of your common experience that you are able to relate to the artist in the personal way that the artist, I am almost certain, is trying to elicit from at least some of the audience. That type of emotional response to art is beautiful. |
Well ok then.
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Mad
What would make it art, to your mind? Me, I've given up on whatever distinctions I used to employ to deny something I didn't particularly like or appreciate the name of art. |
I generally think of art as something that requires some skill or special training from the artist, if anyone can do it its just a pastime. IMO
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Mad
But let me ask you a follow up question? Do you think that association would remain if you were to find a less dangerous job and come across krumping in a city park somewhere? |
Probably not, at least not as much, even now I can still make the distinction and really do not feel nervous or have any anxiety when watching it; I just find it odd that people would call the movements associated with the lead up to physical violence… art.
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Mad
I ask because, while krumping does remind me of the sort of posturing and defiance that sometimes leads to violence, the dance itself doesn't make me nervous. These appear to be kids having fun, perhaps even working out their frustrations by making those violent gestures into a different kind of display. |
Despite my earlier kidding around, I do recognize the positive implications krumping might have for the performers themselves. And despite my distaste for the dance I would not condone banning it, or want to see it stop from external pressure. I just don’t care to watch it.
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MadArchitect
Joined: 14 Nov 2004
Posts: 2609
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:17 am Post subject:
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| Rose wrote: |
| And, considering what you wrote here Mad, do you think krumping might help these artists to avoid engaging in the violence they might otherwise, considering some of the neighborhoods or situations in which they live? |
Honestly, I wouldn't feel comfortable speculating. If forced to give an answer, I'd say that so much depends on the individual, their background, and their reasons for involving themselves in the dance, that any sort of generalization about its social effects would probably distort more than it explained. |
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