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These guys look like what we call “bugs” in the prison system (basically wackos who were put into prison because they are too violent to be in a mental institution), that dance (or whatever you call it) looks a lot like a bug when they spaz out.
Gee Frank, that sounded a bit judgmental, if not actually hateful. I’d definitely call that dance and, though I didn’t see anything really astonishing in the videos Chris posted, the guy in LanDroid’s is extraordinary. I can’t imagine the muscle work going on there—out of this world strength and power, combined with agility, control and flexibility. Actually, Frank, with your background in martial arts, I’d think you’d appreciate the concentration and work that goes into making one’s body perform that way. I think, at least, your martial arts training would certainly keep you from comparing such people—well any people really—to “bugs.”
First of all, I was only commenting on the first video, I did not watch the second.
And while it may technically be defined as dancing, I certainly would not compare it with anything that takes discipline, precision or years of practice like ballet or karate.
Lastly… this was not a hateful comment, if you had seen a “bug” wig out I doubt that even you could deny the similarities.
Well, technical or no Frank, it’s dance. It’s rhythmic body movement accompanied by music. As I said, I wouldn’t necessarily call the first video good dancing, but it’s dance. As for the comparison I drew to the skill and body mechanics in martial arts, I was speaking specifically to the third video.
Frank wrote:
Lastly… this was not a hateful comment, if you had seen a “bug” wig out I doubt that even you could deny the similarities.
Trust me, I probably wouldn’t call people, any people, bugs. When working relatively closely with people who are living in imprisonment, some of whom will be spending the rest of their lives there, I think it’s dangerous to incorporate a language that further degrades their humanity. And I mean dangerous for me. I’ve seen mentally ill people have episodes both in a courtroom and in transport. I hope I would never call them bugs. Distancing myself from such people’s humanity destroys a bit of my own. I try to be always aware of that when dealing with defendants on a day-to-day basis, however repulsive the acts that brought them before the court might have been.
Rose
Well, technical or no Frank, its dance. It’s rhythmic body movement accompanied by music.
In my opinion it did not amount to much more than free form flailing, but if you want to call it dance that’s cool with me.
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Rose
As I said, I wouldn’t necessarily call the first video good dancing, but its dance. As for the comparison I drew to the skill and body mechanics in martial arts, I was speaking specifically to the third video.
Like I said, I did not watch the other videos.
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Rose
Trust me; I probably wouldn’t call people, any people, bugs. When working relatively closely with people who are living in imprisonment, some of whom will be spending the rest of their lives there, I think it’s dangerous to incorporate a language that further degrades their humanity.
Then you should talk to the inmates about it... “Bug” was coined by them, it is accepted term in that enviroment that is older than I am and if you don’t talk the inmate’s language you will not go far in corrections.
But it was insensitive at least. Maybe I should have said "loony inmate spazing out".
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Rose
I’ve seen mentally ill people have episodes both in a courtroom and in transport. I hope I would never call them bugs.
That’s fine for most people but like I just stated I have to speak that language if I want to understand the inmates.
It never even occurred to me that comparing one thing to another (when they are in fact similar) would be constituted as hateful or judgmental, after all I was not commenting on the dancers themselves, only comparing the dance they were performing with something else I was familiar with.
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Rose
Distancing myself from such people’s humanity destroys a bit of my own. I try to be always aware of that when dealing with defendants on a day-to-day basis, however repulsive the acts that brought them before the court might have been.
I do not distance myself from anyone’s humanity, I simply use the terms that are accepted in that environment. And believe it or not I can make the distinction.
I treat all inmates the same, I mirror the respect that they give me, which has (so far) been good.
I just read all the posts in this thread and have made some observations.
First of all, LanDroid, those dancers are awesome. I do love watching break dancing and all sorts of urban dancing. Good stuff, so thanks.
I've known Frank for a looong time and he is far from judgmental or hateful. And his post using the word "bug" had me cracking up. My observation is that this online world of posting messages back and forth leaves far too much room for interpretation. Frank types as he talks in real life and he has an awesome sense of humor. No harm is meant by it. And I really think his above posts should have elicited laughter and comical replies, not the accusation that he is being judgmental or hateful. He is typing fast and having fun.
Krunking does indeed look kind of wacko. The dancers do look like they're pissed off and making threatening gestures at each other or the world or at something. And if you run a search for krunking and read about it this is exactly what they are trying to communicate. Krunking is supposed to be a form of language through body movements and each motion has a purpose. There are actually names for those flailing motions. LOL I am seriously laughing. I find it interesting how I can laugh my ass off at Frank's approach or "judgment" of Krunking while others have a totally different reaction. I disagree with Frank, but his words are pretty funny. Heck, my brother makes fun of country music whenever I bring it up and it makes me laugh. We're all different. Krunkers do look like they are having spasms. Krunking is all about spasms. I bet the best Krunkers have epilepsy. ROFL Do NOT let that get you mad.
Golly, Frank, “the lady protests too much, methinks.”
My response that you are quoting here wasn’t directed at you or your experiences. It was in response to your claim that I couldn’t help comparing people with mental health issues, who were having episodes, to bugs. I was just explaining why I would not—or more, why I hope I would not call such people bugs, and that I take pains not to use such language. And that I particularly take pains to keep from using such language in a situation that always threatens to distance me from the humanity of another person, whatever the circumstances.
I was using my experience to explain to you why that wouldn't be true of me. At that point, I wasn’t, at all, speaking to your use of the term in a penitentiary facility, because I haven't experienced what you are experiencing there. My statement, I think clearly, was about my experiences and why you couldn’t just assume that I would utilize such language.
Rose
It was in response to your claim that I couldn’t help comparing people with mental health issues, who were having episodes, to bugs.
Actually I was saying that you couldn’t deny the similarities between the mental health wacko spaz and the dancing in the first video.
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Rose
I was just explaining why I would not—or more, why I hope I would not call such people bugs
Nobody said you would or should call anyone bugs, you do not have to call them bugs to recognize the similarity of movements between that dance and a violent mental fit.
Actually I was saying that you couldn’t deny the similarities between the mental health wacko spaz and the dancing in the first video.
No the comment to which I was responding was this:
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…if you had seen a “bug” wig out I doubt that even you could deny the similarities.
And all I said was that I wouldn’t note similarities between people with mental health issues, who may be acting out, and bugs. That’s when I explained why I would not draw such comparisons.
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Nobody said you would or should call anyone bugs, you do not have to call them bugs to recognize the similarity of movements between that dance and a violent mental fit.
O.K. Frank. I was merely explaining why I wouldn’t draw any comparisons whatsoever between people and bugs. When you stated that even I couldn’t help but noting similarities, I felt it necessary to state that I wouldn’t even consider the comparison, so I wouldn’t note any such similarities. And, further, that I wouldn’t use such language with regard to people. My comments were directed to why I wouldn’t draw the similarities—as you had stated I couldn’t help but do so—because I wouldn’t make the comparison in the first place. I wouldn’t consider similarities in movement, spasms, ticks or noises; I wouldn’t consider similarities in appearance, shape, size, or color. I wouldn’t choose to consider any such similarities. I wouldn’t do so with regard to confined mental health patients; I wouldn’t do so with regard to people appearing on a video.
But, I just want to make sure we’re clear—because a lot of your above post is offered in explanation of why you use the term—that the explanation above about being careful not to distance myself from others’ humanity, etc. was about me, and not directed to you. I was just explaining why I wouldn’t—or more why I strive not to use that language. As I said before, I can’t speak to your use of the term outside of the context of this thread, because I haven’t the foggiest what you’re experiencing, nor the tools needed to fulfill the position of a C.O.
