Ch. 1 - Words and Worlds

Q

I've just joined BOOKTALK (and wish I'd found y'all before) and I'm intrigued by Pinkers work. Any comments i make will have to be from what I can gather from these posts here: I'm currently in Argentina which has an amazing Postal System dedicated to delaying (and often losing) mail; deliveries from Amazon.com and such can take two months or more and carry $20 to $30 postage charges - and of course, there are no English language libraries. Thats the bad news.

The good news is that in this case I have the opportunity to see two different languages at work (I've written for publication in both). I find it useful to test statements on linguistics in each - a sort of 'double blind' test. Anything I stumble across I'll post in this forum: Further along in the book (and who knows, my own copy might arrive sometime) I suspect, when there will be more to work on.

Smile

Q

Loricat · Graduate Student Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 446 Gender:

JulianTheApostate · Sophomore Joined: 23 Jul 2005 Posts: 289 Gender:

Mr. Pessimistic · Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:29 am Post subject:

George Ricker · Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:39 am Post subject:

Mr. P.: I have heard/read talk regarding the question of whether words shape our thoughts or vice versa. I feel, after reading this first section, that it is obviously our thought patterns & structures and the brains specific way of conceptualizing the external world that shapes the words and constructions we use.

I'm about two-thirds of the way through the book and don't want to comment too much until I've finished.

It seems clear that our brains have evolved to see the world from certain perspectives and those perspectives are critical in the development of human languages. That said, can we honestly conceive of such a thing as a non-verbal thought? Certainly, there are emotions and impulses and all the rest, but those aren't thoughts, at least not as I understand the term.

And if we must have words to articulate thoughts, is it not also the case that the thoughts we articulate will be influenced by the words we use? In other words, while the mental architecture we have evolved dictates the form language development takes, it seems to me that between thoughts and expressions there is a considerable feedback loop, a kind of synergy that suggests neither one can be regarded solely as the creator of the other.

George

Dissident Heart · Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:16 pm Post subject:

Do we have thoughts without words? Is thinking a matter of talking to oneself? Pinker, I think, is describing the world of thought as largely a matter of speaking. The stuff of thought is language in motion. And the motion of language follows, it seems, rules of transmission: verbs require proper utilization...they simply wont fit where they don't belong. Even children know this! Actually, it's because children know this (without being able to have learned it) that we can even talk about it.

Interestingly, the key to this linguistic fact is found entirely in the ear: it is an auditory discovery delivered by way of speaking kidlets. Adult linguists then capture these sounds as scripted alphabet and position them onto paper, or as pixels on a screen.

We might say we are hardwired for language: capturing the stuff of thought with the metaphor of computation and machinery. In this case, the choice of metaphor does form the world we describe.

Q


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