You are browsing the forum as a guest. Please log in or register to access additional features.
Online reading group and book discussion forum
  FORUMS ABOUT BOOKS VIDEOS TRANSCRIPTS LINKS BLOGS DONATE CONTACT  

     Log in   Register 


BookTalk.org News
• Only 4 members are currently signed up to receive email digests. Click on the digests link on the right at the top of every page to learn more. This is a great feature for keeping updated on forum activity.
• Regular casual chats are back on the menu! Check out the calendar for the schedule.

Links & Resources

Community Rules & Tips
For Authors & Publishers
Link to our old forum
Our Amazon.com Statistics
Book Suggestions
Rationally Speaking
Donations to BookTalk.org
FACTS Book Selections
BookTalk Forum Statistics
Games 170 FREE Games


Chat Room

Enter the BookTalk.org Chat Room

Enter our Chat Room

Nov. 2008 Chat Schedule
Dec. 2008 Chat Schedule
Jan. 2009 Chat Schedule


Featured Videos

Dan Barker
author of "Godless"
talks about his deconversion


Dan Barker's Deconversion

Andrew Bacevich
"The Limits of Power"

Andrew Bacevich on The Limits of Power

More Videos

Author Interviews


Featured Member Blogs

Ophelia's Blog
Lawrence's Blog
Penelope's Blog
Frank 013's Blog

- View all member Blogs
- See the latest Blog posts


Amazon Honor System
Amazon Honor System Click Here to Pay Learn More

Donate to BookTalk.org

Please support BookTalk.org by making a small donation today!

Who supports us?


Related Links

Show us where you live!
BookTalk.org Member Map

Display Pagerank


Orwell vs Huxley


 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BookTalk.org Forum Index -> General Discussion
Author Message
bradams bradams has been starred
I can enter The Chamber



Usergroups: None


Joined: 03 Jan 2008

Posts: 61

Thanks
Given: 0
Received: 0 in 0 Posts

Gender: None specified



PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:58 pm    Post subject: Orwell vs Huxley Reply with quote
I think it was Meesh's post regarding Fahrenheit 451 that put me in mind of something that Neil Postman wrote, even though he does not mention Bradbury.

Quote:
We were keeping our eyes on 1984. when the year came and the prophecy didn't, thoughtful Americans sang softly in praise of themselves. The roots of liberal democracy had held. Wherever else the terror had happened, w at least, had not been visited by Orwellian nightmares.

But we had forgotten that alongside Orwell's dark vision, there was another - slightly older, slightly less well known, equally chilling: Aldous Huxley's Brave New World. Contrary to common belief even among the educated, Huxley and Orwell did not prophesy the same thing. Orwell warns that we will be overcome by an externally imposed oppression. But in Huxley's vision, no Big Brother is required to deprive people of their autonomy, maturity and history. As he saw it, people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.

What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one. Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism. Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us. Huxley feared the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance. Orwell feared we would become a captive culture. Huxley feared we would become a trivial culture, preoccupied with some equivalent of the feelies, the orgy porgy, and the centrifugal bumblepuppy. as Huxley remarked in Brave New World Revisited, the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetitive for distractions." In 1984, Huxley added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we hate would ruin us. Huxley feared that what we love would ruin us.

This book is about the possibility that Huxley, not Orwell, was right.


I've quoted the entire forward to Amusing Ourselves to Death because I feel that quoting only parts of it would reduce its impact. What I'm proposing here is not a discussion of Postman's book, but a discussion of the idea it encapsulates, particularly in regard to books ("What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one"), but also in regard to the other ideas.

My own thought is that if Huxley was right (and I think he was), then Orwell's prophetic vision may also come to pass because of that. I believe that what Huxley envisaged has largely come to pass, if not literally then at least in spirit, for a large proportion of the western world. For example, I know a university graduate who can quote Harry Potter readily, but when told of Benazir Bhutto's assassination responded by asking "Who's he?" I think that because the population has become so passive and entertainment oriented it has made possible a gradual curtailing of our civil liberties in a much more Orwellian fashion. After all, Big Brother is nothing more than a tv show to most people in my country, and they remain ignorant of Owell's version.

What does anyone else think on the issue?
Back to top
  Facebook it
Niall001 Niall001 has been starred
Stupendously Brilliant



Usergroups: None


Joined: 18 Sep 2003


Posts: 770

Thanks
Given: 0
Received: 0 in 0 Posts

Gender: Male



PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
This reminded me of an anecdote I once heard (was it in Chomsky's Interventions?) about a group of Russian journalists who traveled to the US during the Cold War. They wondered how it was that the American free press were all towed the government line on most matters when the Soviets had to use coercive methods to arrive at a similar destination.
Back to top
  Facebook it
bradams bradams has been starred
I can enter The Chamber



Usergroups: None


Joined: 03 Jan 2008

Posts: 61

Thanks
Given: 0
Received: 0 in 0 Posts

Gender: None specified



PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That does sound like Chomsky. The whole idea of Manufacturing Consent.

I wonder whether manufacturing consent is more Orwellian than Huxleyan in the sense that it's institutional. Maybe it's both!

In Australia our sports stars get more news coverage for their off-field antics than more serious news items. We had a footballer, Ben Cousins, who's been all over the papers for his abuse of drugs and a cricketer, Shane Warne, who gets headlines for his sexual exploits - front page news and page after page of coverage. In comparison the passing away of one of our great politicians, Don Chipp who founded Australia's third force in politics the Australian Democrats, didn't even merit a whole page late last year.

Those examples sound more along the Huxleyan lines than the Orwellian, but what I've read of Chomsky about the maufacture of consent generally sounds Orwellian.
Back to top
  Facebook it
Display replies from:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BookTalk.org Forum Index -> General Discussion  
Page 1 of 1


 
Recent Topics
» Is an agnostic a cowardly atheist?
by Robert Tulip on Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:50 pm

» Do you plan to spend less this holiday season?
by President Camacho on Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:24 pm

» Atheists are my brothers and sisters of a different faith...
by geo on Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:45 pm

» Write Your Self Well: Journal Your Self to Health
by mainecoast on Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:29 pm

» Lolita, part 1, chapters 10-15
by Ophelia on Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:17 pm

» Original Poetry
by realiz on Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:58 pm

» Introduction: Shawn
by Ophelia on Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:29 pm

» The Dedication
by realiz on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:49 pm

» Ch. 4: On the Rainy River
by realiz on Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:48 pm

» Ch. 5: Enemies
by Saffron on Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:18 pm




BookTalk.org Suggests


The Spirit Man by Sean Murphy

Stupid Reasons People Die: An Ingenious Plot for Defusing Deadly Diseases by John Corso, M.D.

Wife In The North by Judith O'Reilly

Coyote's Guide to Connecting with Nature: For Kids of All Ages and Their Mentors by Young, Haas, McGown

The Myth of the Oil Crisis: Overcoming The Challenges of Depletion, Geopolitics, And Global Warming by Robin M . Mills


Additional Book Suggestions


Related Links

Poll
Do you plan to spend less this holiday season?

Yes [1]
No [1]

You must login to vote


BookTalk.org is a book discussion group, also known as a reading group or book club. We read and talk about non-fiction books, as a group. Live author chats where book group members can interact with and interview authors are common. We often give away free books to our members in book giveaway contests. Our booktalks are open to everybody who enjoys booktalk.  Booktalk is a free online reading group that features quality book reviews, resources for readers and book lovers. Discussing books is our passion. Non-fiction chat, book forum, literature forum, or reading forum. Register a free book club account today. Suggest nonfiction books. Authors and publishers are welcome to plug their books or ask for an author chat or interview.

MAIN NAVIGATION

HOMEABOUTBOOKSTRANSCRIPTSOLD FORUMSLINKSBLOGSFAQDONATECONTACT

BOOKS WE HAVE DISCUSSED
Godless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists by Dan BarkerThe Things They Carried by Tim O'BrienThe Limits of Power: The End of American ExceptionalismLolitaOrlando by Virginia Woolf On Being Certain by Robert A. Burton50 reasons people give for believing in a god by Guy P. HarrisonWalden: Or, Life in the Woods by Henry David ThoreauExile and the Kingdom by Albert CamusOur Inner Ape: A Leading Primatologist Explains Why We Are Who We Are by Frans de WaalYour Inner Fish: A Journey into the 3.5-Billion-Year-History of the Human Body by Neil ShubinNo Country for Old Men by Cormac McCarthyThe Age of American Unreason by Susan JacobyTen Theories of Human Nature by Leslie Stevenson & David HabermanHeart of Darkness by Joseph ConradThe Stuff of Thought: Language as a Window Into Human Nature by Stephen PinkerA Thousand Splendid Suns by Khaled HosseiniThe Lucifer Effect: Understanding How Good People Turn Evil by Philip ZimbardoResponsibility and Judgment by Hannah ArendtInterventions by Noam ChomskyGodless in America by George A. RickerReligious Expression and the American Constitution by Franklyn S. HaimanDeep Economy: The Wealth of Communities and the Durable Future by Phil McKibbenThe God Delusion by Richard DawkinsThe Third Chimpanzee: The Evolution and Future of the Human Animal by Jared DiamondThe Woman in the Dunes by Abe KoboEvolution vs. Creationism: An Introduction by Eugenie C. ScottThe Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals by Michael PollanI, Claudius : From the Autobiography of Tiberius Claudius, Born 10 B.C., Murdered and Deified A.D. 54 by Robert GravesBreaking The Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon by Daniel C. DennettA Peace to End All Peace: The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East Peace by David FromkinThe Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey NiffeneggerThe End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason by Sam HarrisEnder's Game by Orson Scott CardThe Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark HaddonValue and Virtue in a Godless Universe by Erik J. WielenbergThe March by E. L DoctorowThe Ethical Brain by Michael GazzanigaFreethinkers: A History of American Secularism by Susan JacobyCollapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared DiamondThe Battle for God by Karen ArmstrongThe Future of Life by Edward O. WilsonWhat is Good? The Search for the Best Way to Live by A. C. GraylingCivilization and Its Enemies: The Next Stage of History by Lee HarrisPale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space by Carl SaganHow We Believe: Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God by Michael ShermerLooking for Spinoza: Joy, Sorrow, and the Feeling Brain by Antonio DamasioLies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right by Al FrankenThe Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature by Matt RidleyThe Blank Slate: The Modern Denial of Human Nature by Stephen PinkerUnweaving the Rainbow: Science, Delusion and the Appetite for Wonder by Richard DawkinsAtheism: A Reader edited by S.T. JoshiGlobal Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From the Big Bang To the 21st Century by Howard BloomThe Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition into the Forces of Nature by Howard BloomGuns, Germs and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies by Jared DiamondThe Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl SaganBury My Heart at Wounded Knee: An Indian History of the American West by Dee BrownFuture Shock by Alvin Toffler

OTHER PAGES
Baloney Detection KitBanned Book ListOur Amazon.com SalesMassimo Pigliucci Rationally SpeakingOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism BooksFACTS Book Selections

Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2008. All rights reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
Website developed by MidnightCoder.ca