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jales4  Intern

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Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:13 pm Post subject:
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Hi,
My vote is for either Heart of Darkness or Let's Talk About Kevin. Heart is my first choice though - I've tried it, found it difficult, and quit - so doing it as a group read would give the incentive to work through it.
Jan. |
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irishrosem  Doctorate
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:10 am Post subject:
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I really was just rattling off titles of the types of books we might want to consider. But, since The Heart of Darkness got a couple mentions, I’ll throw my weight behind it too. Hell, I haven’t read it since high school. Plus we might be able to work a nice movie night tie-in with Apocalypse Now.
So some considerations for Heart of Darkness. It’s short, almost like a novella, which is good because, if chosen, I think it might be booktalk’s first official foray into modernist literature. But I think Conrad is eminently more manageable than someone like Joyce. And I don’t think its shorter length would limit us from having suitable material to keep discussion going. Outside of the story itself, Conrad’s prose style is really something to behold. One comes across the most extraordinary passages throughout. It’s the type of prose where it’s obvious every word is absolutely calculated.
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| The earth seemed unearthly. We are accustomed to look upon the shackled form of a conquered monster, but there—there you could look at a thing monstrous and free. It was unearthly, and the men were—No, they were not inhuman. Well, you know, that was the worst of it—this suspicion of their not being inhuman. It would come slowly to one. They howled, and leaped, and spun, and made horrid faces; but what thrilled you was just the thought of their humanity—like yours—the thought of your remote kinship with this wild and passionate uproar. Ugly. Yes, it was ugly enough; but if you were man enough you would admit to yourself that there was in you just the faintest trace of a response to the terrible frankness of that noise, a dim suspicion of there being a meaning in it which you—you so remote from the night of first ages—could comprehend. And why not? The mind of man is capable of anything—because everything is in it, all the past as well as all the future. What was there after all? Joy, fear, sorrow, devotion, valour, rage—who can tell?—but truth—truth stripped of its cloak of time. |
And this is just a handful of sentences of pages and pages of penetrating prose. It’s the type of narrative that one should read aloud to get a fuller experience—to slow down your reading speed, to let as many senses as possible absorb the work.
The story itself touches on some interesting themes, largely centered on the experiences of the civilized in an uncivilized world—light and darkness; good and evil; civilization and barbarism; reality and pretense; the struggle of man’s own soul. Moral issues are not clear cut, and the struggle is for man to find for himself where his morality lies.
Yet, despite being a part of English lit canon, Heart of Darkness has come under some intense criticism over the years, notably by Chinua Achebe. It could be interesting to examine such criticism as part of the reading. I watched a friendly impromptu debate of sorts between two professors while at school as they discussed the accusations of racism in Heart of Darkness, and it was an enthralling discussion.
This Norton edition of Heart of Darkness is annotated and includes a number of what seem to be interesting critical essays, Achebe’s among them. It can be ordered new off Amazon for under $12, but the text can also be found online at Project Guttenberg. |
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Chris OConnor  Rhodes Scholar BookTalk.org Owner

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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject:
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As requested I have deleted the book images of the books we're swapping. We do want to pick the next 2 fiction books right away. I don't like seeing the blank book boxes up top. Having the 4th box empty with the "To be determined" is a good thing I suppose as it tells visitors that they are joining at a time when they can help us pick the next books, but having 3 blank book boxes in a row looks bad.
So let's pick at least the next fiction book this weekend!  |
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Constance963  Intern

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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject:
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| I would second the Girls by Lori Lansens. I already have it purchased and I think the conjoined twins dynamic looks interesting. I think I would read Heart of Darkness as well. I would have to purchase it but it looks interesting. |
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BrianSJNB Newbie
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:58 pm Post subject:
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I know this is irrelevant at this point, but it is definitely not something you should let children read unless they are very mature, or you are a bad parent.
I'd be willing to read Heart of Darkness. |
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Raych Newbie
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:10 pm Post subject:
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| I'd like to pitch in my vote for Then We Came to the End or We Need to Talk About Kevin. |
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Mr. Pessimistic  Professor Silver Contributor


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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject:
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Heart of Darkness looks like a clear winner.
Mr. P. |
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Ophelia  Embodiment of Reason Gold Contributor


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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:26 pm Post subject:
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First, thanks Brian about the link to Persepolis: so it's definitely not for children, but it's a comic book, and as I haven't read it I can only say that the theme seems to be be interesting.
About making a decision: I can't make up my mind, so I'll say this: I'll go along with whatever book other people choose, I'll read it and I will take part in the discussion (provided I've got somehing to say! ) |
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Loricat  Graduate Student

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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject:
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I'll pick up whatever book people want to read...at the moment, I'm rather compulsively reading and re-reading a(n albeit very good) fantasy novel. It's like I'm stuck on a fast-forward/rewind loop.
(will a day come when cassettes of any kind are so obsolete that nobody gets that metaphor? ) |
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JulianTheApostate  Junior
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject:
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Regarding Persepolis, my wife, who's bright and reads lots of serious books, found that book worthwhile and recommended it to me. Though it's not the kind of book we typically select here, it seemed worth considering, especially since the movie version is coming out and Iran is in the news so much.
For my book suggestions, I deliberately chose books that would be less daunting to read. Our book discussions here are often constrained by the fact that few people manage to read the book. A more accessible book might lead to more people participating. |
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FannieB  Eligible to vote!

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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: Book suggestions
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I would really enjoy a discussion about We Need To Talk About Kevin...so I'm behind that 100%.
As for the classics or "literature class" type picks, I wouldn't rule them out but I do question whether in general, we're looking to break out of that and explore some new dynamics, having "been there and done that" in most instances - by that I don't mean the specific titles, just that type of dynamic. There's so much more out there to discover!
I think it's important too, to remember to at least every now and again decide on something a bit light-hearted. Not "fluff" but something not too heavy - I don't have any good examples right now, lol, and I myself tend toward heavier fiction, but man, all it takes is a weeks worth of the 5 o'clock news and I've had enough Heavy. LOL
Happily rolling around in my piles of books,
FannieB |
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yodha Almost a regular

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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:08 pm Post subject: Heart Of Darkness
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Now that it has come up, I would love to revisit Heart Of Darkness too! I read it more like a traveller's story in 2005, while noting that I would need at least one more read to get all the dark undertones.
This was the review I wrote after first reading it ...
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Journey into a dark land
Heart Of Darkness by Joseph Conrad could very well be the darkest and most serious book I've read. The story is narrated by a fictional character named Marlow to the author and others resting on a yawl. Marlow talks of his past journey on a steamboat up a river in a dark continent to bring back an ivory trader named Kurtz whom everyone reveres for his achievements. He reaches the colonial station after a risky adventure through the tropical land and finds Kurtz in a near death state. Also, his image of greatness falls after Marlow discovers the real activities of Kurtz in his colonial trading post. He sees Kurtz as a reprehensible being. Kurtz dies a while later on the journey back downstream. His last words indicate his probable realization of the havoc he has caused in his life. Back in Europe, Marlow faces Kurtz's widow and gives her his last words.
This novella by Conrad draws inspiration from his actual journey on the Congo river in Africa. The narration from the start is strongly evocative of darkness. Everything from the descriptions of the European towns, the Congo river, the African continent, the color of the inhabitant savages, their ways of life, the colonies of the Europeans, the cannibalistic Africans who form a part of his steamboat crew and ultimately Kurtz himself. The language drips heavily with vividness. I almost felt like being in Marlow's shoes journeying slowly up the Congo through the primeval continent. Though Marlow grows to hate Kurtz, in the end he is forced to leave him with a good name in this world. Like Life Of Pi, this book feels great since it left me with more than one meaning of its narration. Is Conrad talking of the dark continent or the darkness inside us?
Heart Of Darkness is short (hence called a novella) at just 112 pages. I read the Penguin Classics version edited by Robert Hampson. It has Hampson's long and boring introduction which would interest only those studying the book rather than reading it. It also has Conrad's actual Congo Diary in which he noted the happenings of his actual journey in Africa. This book has a detailed notes section at the end of the story.
Published in 1902, the book is available now at Project Gutenberg freely for everyone. |
It would be very interesting to see what different interpretations and faces of the novel other BookTalkers are able to discover!  |
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suescrafts Newbie
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:44 pm Post subject:
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| I would be interested in reading Heart of Darkness or The Girls. |
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George Ricker  Junior Gold Contributor


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Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:24 am Post subject:
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Add my name to those who favor reading Conrad's Heart of Darkness.
George |
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bklvr Guest
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Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject:
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| I still think "Fire Bell in the Night" would appeal to all types of people. Anyone second it?? |
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