Online reading group and book discussion forum
  HOME FORUMS BOOKS LINKS DONATE ADVERTISE CONTACT  
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:57 pm

<< Week of December 17, 2014 >>
Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday Monday Tuesday
17 Day Month

18 Day Month

19 Day Month

20 Day Month

21 Day Month

22 Day Month

23 Day Month





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average. 
Prisons in the real world 
Author Message
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Masters


Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 450
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Thanks: 5
Thanked: 43 times in 34 posts
Gender: None specified

Post Prisons in the real world
In this thread, Frank talked about differences between the SPE and actual prisons.
http://www.booktalk.org/what-would-you- ... t3926.html

Real-life prisons are a relevant topic, both in their own right and when comparing them to the SPE. Let's not talk about Abu Ghraib here, since it deserves a separate thread.



Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:55 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Worthy of Worship


Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2021
Location: NY
Thanks: 560
Thanked: 171 times in 118 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post 
Quote:
Irish
The main focus is obviously about how America's prisons are reportedly becoming training grounds for radical, terroristic forms of Islam. (I'm not sure how much of this is rhetoric though.)


Hi Irish! Long time no chat

Here in NY it was somewhat recently discovered that a Muslim priest was preaching radical Islam and recruiting for terrorist activities, he was in charge of hiring Muslim priests for the entire state. Apparently the problem was rather wide spread and homeland security got involved. Dozens of priests were fired from our penal system and the screening process has been radically changed.

This all happened more than a few years ago but we learned about it as a lesson to always keep a watchful eye on everyone in the prison. The things we find can, and do affect life on the outside.

Quote:
Irish
Heh, absolutely. And if they're represented by overworked public defenders, a lot of them or more on top of their cases than their advocates. You should see some of the correspondence we get. Jailhouse attorneys intrigue me.


That's an interesting viewpoint and I am sure accurate... but I was really not talking about the outside courts.

The vast majority of the grievance material never goes to the courts, and when it does it is usually the officer facing charges. The grievance process usually results in officer discipline, charges against the officer grieved or changes in state directive.

Officers have to walk a fine line now, if we are found negligent or purposely denying an inmate their rights we can be terminated or brought up on charges by the state. The outside courts rarely get involved inside the prison; we have a 3 tier disciplinary system that is run by the top brass inside the jail that is reviewed by the superintendent and other state representatives.

Quote:
Irish
BTW, good to hear you are doing well, Frank. Stay safe.

Thanks! Staying safe is the plan!

Quote:
JulianTheApostate
The interesting part of the study is what it revealed about human nature, and how people on each side behave when one group has massive authority over another. That's more significant than the extent to which the SPE reflected a real-life prison.


Yes in that respect the study was worth while and prisons from that era did make adjustments to some of their procedures based off of that study. But to my knowledge officers never had the kind of authority given to the guards in that experiment.

Quote:
JulianTheApostate
Still, I wonder how much, in practice, prisons live up to the standards that they're supposed to. From everything I've read, prison life is incredibly nasty.


I think that that depends largely on the prison; each prison has differing standards and housing rules. Much of which is determined by the type of inmates they receive, the layout of the prison and how many inmates they have per officer.

It is often stated that many prisons are run by the inmates not the officers. Some prisons have more than 200 inmates per officer and control in that situation is impossible. Their yard might have more than 500 inmates out at one time being watched by a hand full of officers on the ground and 2 tower officers. In that environment inmates can get away with a lot and they know it.

In my jail the ratio is around 75 inmates per officer; and while this sounds like a lot it is actually manageable, but we all know that if the inmates manage to organize there is little that we can do to stop them from taking the prison.

Quote:
JulianTheApostate
Note that Zimbardo did consult with an ex-con before and during the experiment. However, it's not clear how much he interacted with correctional officers.


I think an ex-con is the last person I would go to, to get information on how inmates are treated, or I would at least temper what they were saying with the officer's side of the story.

Inmates always want to play the part of the victim of the system, when in reality they victimize each other and even the officers rather regularly.

One inmate's story

In our special housing unit (a murder that has been convicted with several life sentences) has managed to put 3 officers in the hospital (one officer was out for 2 years with a severe head injury) stabbed over 10 other inmates back when he was in general population (one of which died) He has also been convicted of rape, assault, weapon possession, and drug possession all numerous times. He now has Hepatitis and is on weekly dialysis.

He is a murder that since he has been in the system has cost the state well over a quarter of a million dollars in medical treatment of his victims and for himself. This is not counting outside court costs for his other crimes or his regular room and board expenses.

He is currently costing the state over $5,000 a month for his continuing medical treatment and somehow if you ask him, he is the victim.

This is not an isolated case, we have several inmates that fit these criteria in our SHU and I suspect that they are more numerous in the max and super max prisons.

Later



Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:35 pm
Profile Email
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average. 



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:

Recent Posts 
Dawkins/Harris - Anti-theists, Not Atheists

Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:55 pm

geo

Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?

Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:22 pm

Gnostic Bishop

Cheap core competencies essential to the inputs ask yourself

Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:06 pm

eviblypreplay

Henry IV (Part 1), Act 3

Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:54 pm

geo

Ch. 7: From Beliefs to Behavior

Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:49 am

geo

Are Mediums Real?

Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:02 am

Gnostic Bishop

Ch. 1: Rewriting the Ten Commandments

Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:15 am

DWill

Suggesting the fiction book TROPIC OF CANCER by Henry Miller

Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:55 pm

Cattleman

What Scientists Really Do

Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:48 pm

Cattleman

My intro to other book lovers!

Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:26 pm

Cattleman

The Times of Israel reviews thriller Smokescreen

Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:14 pm

khaled Talib

The Examiner reviews Singapore author's spy novel

Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:35 pm

khaled Talib

begging the question

Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:26 pm

youkrst

King Henry 4 part 1 parting shots

Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:11 pm

Taylor

Ebola, Do We Have a Reason to Be Afraid?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:51 pm

bionov

From Fearful to Joyful: An Inspiring Journey of Faith and Love

Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:06 pm

Meravgamliel

Close To Hell

Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:30 am

2estiychin

Billion + believe in Satan. Should all schools be mandated to teach Creationism?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:12 am

Gnostic Bishop

Is God the epitome of both good and evil?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:03 am

Gnostic Bishop

"Why I believe in miracles"

Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:10 am

Gnostic Bishop


BookTalk.org Links 
Forum Rules & Tips
Frequently Asked Questions
BBCode Explained
Info for Authors & Publishers
Featured Book Suggestions
Author Interview Transcripts
Be a Book Discussion Leader!
    

Love to talk about books but don't have time for our book discussion forums? For casual book talk join us on Facebook.

Featured Books

Poll

Yes  83%  [5]
No  16%  [1]
Total votes: 6

Books by New Authors

Visual Help for Getting Started


Top Posters

Of all time: Chris OConnor (14264), Interbane (5666), DWill (4988), stahrwe (4610), Robert Tulip (4311), Mr. Pessimistic (3542), johnson1010 (3342), geo (3309), ant (3159), Penelope (2971), Saffron (2859), Suzanne (2503), Frank 013 (2021), Dissident Heart (1796), bleachededen (1680), President Camacho (1614), Ophelia (1543), Dexter (1465), youkrst (1381), tat tvam asi (1298)

Of the last 24 hrs: Gnostic Bishop (9), geo (5), Interbane (4), Flann 5 (4), youkrst (3), Cattleman (3), DWill (3), Taylor (3), khaled Talib (2), Dexter (1), eviblypreplay (1), Robert Tulip (1), bionov (1), mwreadings (1)




BookTalk.org is a free book discussion group or online reading group or book club. We read and talk about both fiction and non-fiction books as a group. We host live author chats where booktalk members can interact with and interview authors. We give away free books to our members in book giveaway contests. Our booktalks are open to everybody who enjoys talking about books. Our book forums include book reviews, author interviews and book resources for readers and book lovers. Discussing books is our passion. We're a literature forum, or reading forum. Register a free book club account today! Suggest nonfiction and fiction books. Authors and publishers are welcome to advertise their books or ask for an author chat or author interview.


Navigation 
MAIN NAVIGATION

HOMEFORUMSBOOKSTRANSCRIPTSOLD FORUMSADVERTISELINKSFAQDONATETERMS OF USEPRIVACY POLICY

BOOK FORUMS FOR ALL BOOKS WE HAVE DISCUSSED
King Henry IV, Part 1 - by William ShakespeareAtheist Mind, Humanist Heart - by Lex Bayer and John FigdorSense and Goodness Without God - by Richard CarrierFrankenstein - by Mary ShelleyThe Big Questions - by Simon BlackburnScience Was Born of Christianity - by Stacy TrasancosThe Happiness Hypothesis - by Jonathan HaidtA Game of Thrones - by George R. R. MartinTempesta's Dream - by Vincent LoCocoWhy Nations Fail - by Daron Acemoglu and James RobinsonThe Drowning Girl - Caitlin R. KiernanThe Consolations of the Forest - by Sylvain TessonThe Complete Heretic's Guide to Western Religion: The Mormons - by David FitzgeraldA Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man - by James JoyceThe Divine Comedy - by Dante AlighieriThe Magic of Reality - by Richard DawkinsDubliners - by James JoyceMy Name Is Red - by Orhan PamukThe World Until Yesterday - by Jared DiamondThe Man Who Was Thursday - by by G. K. ChestertonThe Better Angels of Our Nature by Steven PinkerLord Jim by Joseph ConradThe Hobbit by J. R. R. TolkienThe Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas AdamsAtlas Shrugged by Ayn RandThinking, Fast and Slow - by Daniel KahnemanThe Righteous Mind - by Jonathan HaidtWorld War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War by Max BrooksMoby Dick: or, the Whale by Herman MelvilleA Visit from the Goon Squad by Jennifer EganLost Memory of Skin: A Novel by Russell BanksThe Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas S. KuhnHobbes: Leviathan by Thomas HobbesThe House of the Spirits - by Isabel AllendeArguably: Essays by Christopher HitchensThe Falls: A Novel (P.S.) by Joyce Carol OatesChrist in Egypt by D.M. MurdockThe Glass Bead Game: A Novel by Hermann HesseA Devil's Chaplain by Richard DawkinsThe Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph CampbellThe Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor DostoyevskyThe Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark TwainThe Moral Landscape by Sam HarrisThe Decameron by Giovanni BoccaccioThe Road by Cormac McCarthyThe Grand Design by Stephen HawkingThe Evolution of God by Robert WrightThe Tin Drum by Gunter GrassGood Omens by Neil GaimanPredictably Irrational by Dan ArielyThe Wind-Up Bird Chronicle: A Novel by Haruki MurakamiALONE: Orphaned on the Ocean by Richard Logan & Tere Duperrault FassbenderDon Quixote by Miguel De CervantesMusicophilia by Oliver SacksDiary of a Madman and Other Stories by Nikolai GogolThe Passion of the Western Mind by Richard TarnasThe Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le GuinThe Genius of the Beast by Howard BloomAlice's Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll Empire of Illusion by Chris HedgesThe Sound and the Fury by William Faulkner The Extended Phenotype by Richard DawkinsSmoke and Mirrors by Neil GaimanThe Selfish Gene by Richard DawkinsWhen Good Thinking Goes Bad by Todd C. RinioloHouse of Leaves by Mark Z. DanielewskiAmerican Gods: A Novel by Neil GaimanPrimates and Philosophers by Frans de WaalThe Enormous Room by E.E. CummingsThe Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar WildeGod Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything by Christopher HitchensThe Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco Dreams From My Father by Barack Obama Paradise Lost by John Milton Bad Money by Kevin PhillipsThe Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson BurnettGodless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists by Dan BarkerThe Things They Carried by Tim O'BrienThe Limits of Power by Andrew BacevichLolita by Vladimir NabokovOrlando by Virginia Woolf On Being Certain by Robert A. Burton50 reasons people give for believing in a god by Guy P. HarrisonWalden: Or, Life in the Woods by Henry David ThoreauExile and the Kingdom by Albert CamusOur Inner Ape by Frans de WaalYour Inner Fish by Neil ShubinNo Country for Old Men by Cormac McCarthyThe Age of American Unreason by Susan JacobyTen Theories of Human Nature by Leslie Stevenson & David HabermanHeart of Darkness by Joseph ConradThe Stuff of Thought by Stephen PinkerA Thousand Splendid Suns by Khaled HosseiniThe Lucifer Effect by Philip ZimbardoResponsibility and Judgment by Hannah ArendtInterventions by Noam ChomskyGodless in America by George A. RickerReligious Expression and the American Constitution by Franklyn S. HaimanDeep Economy by Phil McKibbenThe God Delusion by Richard DawkinsThe Third Chimpanzee by Jared DiamondThe Woman in the Dunes by Abe KoboEvolution vs. Creationism by Eugenie C. ScottThe Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael PollanI, Claudius by Robert GravesBreaking The Spell by Daniel C. DennettA Peace to End All Peace by David FromkinThe Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey NiffeneggerThe End of Faith by Sam HarrisEnder's Game by Orson Scott CardThe Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark HaddonValue and Virtue in a Godless Universe by Erik J. WielenbergThe March by E. L DoctorowThe Ethical Brain by Michael GazzanigaFreethinkers: A History of American Secularism by Susan JacobyCollapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared DiamondThe Battle for God by Karen ArmstrongThe Future of Life by Edward O. WilsonWhat is Good? by A. C. GraylingCivilization and Its Enemies by Lee HarrisPale Blue Dot by Carl SaganHow We Believe: Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God by Michael ShermerLooking for Spinoza by Antonio DamasioLies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them by Al FrankenThe Red Queen by Matt RidleyThe Blank Slate by Stephen PinkerUnweaving the Rainbow by Richard DawkinsAtheism: A Reader edited by S.T. JoshiGlobal Brain by Howard BloomThe Lucifer Principle by Howard BloomGuns, Germs and Steel by Jared DiamondThe Demon-Haunted World by Carl SaganBury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee BrownFuture Shock by Alvin Toffler

OTHER PAGES WORTH EXPLORING
Banned Book ListOur Amazon.com SalesMassimo Pigliucci Rationally SpeakingOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism BooksFACTS Book Selections

Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2014. All rights reserved.
Website developed by MidnightCoder.ca
Display Pagerank