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Chapter 7: The Demon-Haunted World 
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 Chapter 7: The Demon-Haunted World
Chapter 7: The Demon-Haunted World

Please use this thread for discussion Chapter 7: The Demon-Haunted World.

We read and discussed this book back in 2003 and then had a live chat session with Ann Druyan. We've decided to pull this discussion out of the Archives and give the book a second reading/discussion and chat with Ann Druyan. Ann has agreed to another live chat too.

Below you can read the older posts. Just look at the dates on each post to see if they are from the original discussion or the current discussion. Many of the members from 2003 are still members now so don't be shy about responding to their posts.

-- Chris O'Connor

I was just reading through Chapter 7, The Demon-Haunted World

I will not comment until I am finished, but as the chapter contains much about demons, witchcraft, and the use of the Malleus Maleficarum to torture and burn witches, I thought it would be of use to post a link to the full case anyone is interested in reading it in further detail.

Interesting stuff.

Thu Aug 15, 2002 7:29 am

Post More on Demons and Aliens
Further observations and insight from Chapter 7:

In the Malleus, Kramer and Sprenger reveal that "devils...busy themselves by interfering with the process of normal copulation, by obtaining human semen, and themselves transferring it."

Then later:

There is no spaceship in these [demon] stories. But most of the central elements of the alien abduction account are present, including sexually obsessive non-humans who live in the sky, walk through walls, communicate telepathically, and perform breeding experiments on the human species.

It is a strange coincidence that both past and present reports of human contact with those supernatural forces (demons and aliens, respectively) have so many common factors...and that sexuality is such a huge integral component. Sagan makes a compelling argument that the human inner psyche may need to create such visions, dreams or hallucinations to satisfy longings, fulfil suppressed desires or assuage feelings of guilt.

Fri Aug 16, 2002 8:34 am
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Post Re: More on Demons and Aliens
Forgive me for my post to come, since I don't have the book in front of me to quote from...

I also enjoy the part where Sagan is discussing the presence of incubi and succubi. If I recall correctly, he states something to the effect that they must exist (in the mentality of the middle ages), because virgin women would never sleep around before they were married. Supernatural elements were the only explanation, because Satan is like that. Its an odd disparity with the common thought, that humanity was inherently flawed towards bad (original sin), and yet they could do no wrong in the case of pre-marital liaisons....

Fri Aug 16, 2002 6:09 pm
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Post Re: More on Demons and Aliens
Quote from the Mallius link above:

"It has been estimated by Dr. Marija Gimbutas, professor of archaeology at the University of California, that as many as 9 million people, overwhelmingly women, were burned or hanged during the witch-craze."

Good Gaaaaaaaaaaawd! I had no idea it was anywhere near that many!

Sun Aug 18, 2002 9:16 pm
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Post Re: Chapter 7: The Demon-Haunted World
From this point forward all posts are new and a part of our current discussion. Posts up to this point were from the previous discussion of The Demon-Haunted World.

Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:59 pm
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Post Re: Chapter 7: The Demon-Haunted World
This chapter was interesting and horrific in equal parts.

I hadn't thought about the similarities between demons and aliens. Well, I hadn't really thought about either of them much at all.

The witches passages are terrifying. In reading them I realised that it isn't demons, aliens, monsters or devils that scare me, but man's inhumanity to man. Inhumanity isn't really the word is it? Too much of an understatement. There are no depths to which humanity won't sink in perpetrating suffering. Recent revelations of child abuse by people in powerful positions have certainly made me wonder where their inspiration comes from.

I prefer to concentrate on joy and poetry and humour. But, I am enjoying this exercise in seeing what science can protect us from, and indeed, its lighting a candle in the dark.

I wouldn't read malleus maleficarum if you paid me a pension.

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― Stephen C. Meyer, Darwinism, Design and Public Education

Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:38 pm
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Post Re: Chapter 7: The Demon-Haunted World
yeah don't blame ya but it is interesting

The Malleus Maleficarum asserts that three elements are necessary for witchcraft: the evil intentions of the witch, the help of the Devil, and the Permission of God.

great to see the good bishop turfed him out.

Kramer wrote the Malleus shortly after being expelled from Innsbruck by the local bishop after a failed attempt to conduct his own witchcraft prosecution. Kramer's purpose in writing the book was to explain his own views on witchcraft, systematically refute arguments claiming that witchcraft does not exist, discredit those who expressed skepticism about its reality,

oddly enough i have seen the modern version of this in local churches.

the old "the Devil is real" schtick, yeah he's real alright and he lives between your ears :lol: use a bit of critical thinking to cast him out :-D

Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:44 pm
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