Sagan and Freud

tarav · Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:43 pm Post subject: Sagan and Freud

In chapter 16, Sagan mentions how, "When I was a child, my most exultant dreams were about flying--not in some machine, but all by myself...A wish to soar like the birds motivated many of the pioneers of flight...Maybe that's part of the appeal of spaceflight, too".
Sigmund Freud, in his chapter on Typical Dreams, from The Interpretation of Dreams, says that dreams of flying, "reproduce impressions of childhood; they relate, that is, to games involving movement...In after years they repeat these experiences in dreams...It not uncommonly happens that these games...give rise to sexual feelings".

I found it very interesting how two people can interpret the same material in such different, but related ways! Sagan explains dreams of flight in the context of his belief that humans have the need to explore. For Sagan, it appears that our need to explore is reflected in these pleasureable dreams. Freud too, talks of childhood and pleasure, but with a different slant! Freud seems to be explaining dreams of flight in that they are remembrances of enjoyable childhood games with a kick of sexual feeling added for good measure.
I'd be interested to know if anyone has had dreams of flight. Which theory do you think explains these dreams? Do you have your own theory on dreams of flight?

ZachSylvanus · Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: Sagan and Freud

From what little I know of psychology, I have to say I don't put much stock in Freud's interpretations--everything he interpreted was based in sexuality. Quite honestly, while sex is biologically important, I don't think it drives our every waking moment. And the fact that Freud was a consummate drug addict doesn't help my opinion of him.

Jeremy1952 · Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Sagan and Freud

Repeating ancient, fallacious slanders seems beneath you, Zach. Freud experimented with cocaine, which was perfecly legal and not known to be dangerous. It has been common up to the present for sceintists to experiment upon themselves; especially when using others raises ethical complications.

I think it would be interesting to ask yourself,
(1) Who invented the slander?
(2) Why did they invent it?
(3) Why does ZachSylvanus repeat it?

If you make yourself really small, you can externalize virtually everything. Daniel Dennett, 1984

ZachSylvanus · Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: Sagan and Freud

I had heard it from a friend who was taught it in college--this is what I get for trusting state schools :P

Regardless, Freud's ideas are somewhat antiquated, and based largely on a model of the brain that we no longer hold to be accurate.

tarav · Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Sagan and Freud

I have had dreams of flying several times. I don't really have a theory on why I or anyone has them. Typical dreams, or dreams that many people report having, seem to call for some explanation. Having been a Psychology major, the brain and its' workings interest me greatly. While my Psych. program emphasized psychoanaltyic and inter-subjective philosophies, I have definitely moved away from that school of thought. However, dreams have always fascinated me, so I kept Freud's The Interpretation of Dreams. It is entertaining, but not necessarily insightful, to read his wild interpretations! I couldn't help but look-up dreams of flight when I read that passage in Pale Blue Dot.

Daughter of Cacophony · Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:38 am Post subject: Re: Sagan and Freud

Quote:
Freud never became dependent on cocaine. Some say that's because he didn't have an addictive personality, but the more likely explanation is that he was already addicted to something else, namely nicotine in the form of his famous cigars. Freud smoked 20 a day even though they began giving him chest pain and shortness of breath while he was still in his 30s. In his 60s he developed cancer of the jaw and soft palate and eventually had 33 operations, resulting in the complete removal of his jaw and the substitution of a prosthesis. His friends begged him to stop smoking but Freud continued to puff away even after his health had so deteriorated that he could no longer work. Despite chronic pain and the frequent inability to speak or swallow, he persisted in his use of cigars until his death from oral cancer in 1939 at age 83. Crazy, eh? No question, the guy should have seen a shrink.

Lorna St. Louis

To be a witness does not consist in engaging in propaganda or even in stirring people up. It is to be a living mystery, to live one's life so that it would not make sense if God did not exist.
Cardinal Cardijn


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