A problem with perspective...

SunSprite86 · Eligible to vote! Joined: 01 May 2004 Posts: 24 Gender:

No disrespect intended, but I've encountered some problems with this book. The first chapters or so that I've been reading were kind of insulting. He goes to great lengths to describe how ludicrous it is for people to believe that the earth (and mankind) is the center of everything. How stupid people are to believe that our God is better than that of some other possible being from another planet.

I thought the book was going to be about the possible exploration and colonization of other planets. Why does it have to be a religious discussion? Not even a discussion. It's a browbeating.

If Sagan were speaking only from the perspective of the early church, I might have easily overlooked it (or probably even agreed). How long did it take mankind, and especially "the church," to give up its idea that the earth was the center of everything??? I think we've now progressed past that mentality, though.

For the record, I do not think that mankind is the center of creation. If we were to meet beings from another planet, solar system, whatever... there's no reason that I would automatically think humans to be superior. My belief in God encompasses all that lives... here and anywhere else. Yes, we are a tiny speck in the immensity of space. Believing in God does not necessitate this huge arrogance that the entirety of creation was made for just this one population of humanoids.

Ok, venting is complete. I'll try to get back into the book. Getting my students through to graduation took my time away from much reading. Too many books... not enough time... I had FABRIC OF THE COSMOS by Brian Green on reserve list at the library. My turn just came up. So, PALE BLUE DOT has some significant competition.

Karen
aka SunSprite

ZachSylvanus · Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:08 pm Post subject: Re: A problem with perspective...

Regardless of what individual members (even if it's now most of them) think, the main holy books of the major religions do imply that the Earth is at the center of Creation--we've just stretched our religions to encompass what we now know, and don't need religion to explain.

wrkelly · Eligible to vote! Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 17 Gender:

Yeah, I think largely his criticisms were directed toward the big traditional monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) which I believe all say that we (human beings) were created in the god's image. I understood this to be the foundation of his attack on our species-centric conceits.

Also, I think it helps explain his diatribe to take into account that 1) the book is ten years old, and 2) he is really probably responding somewhat tardily to the prevailing attitudes in the social and scientific environment of the 1950s, 60s and 70s, since that's when he was "coming of age" so-to-speak as a scientist. My impression of these early chapters has been "been there--done that". It's all just old news. I'm actually having trouble getting past them out of sheer boredom!

(If anyone has tried to go back and read some of the classic texts of early feminism, you'll understand exactly what I mean! It all seems so obvious in hindsight.)

Wess

LanDroid · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:01 pm Post subject: It's about perspective

The title of the book indicates it's about perspective, I wasn't bored with that part of the book at all. It is important to keep in mind the massive perspective change that has ocurred only in recent history - from a mountain storm God controlling our center of the Universe to an insignificant rock in an astonishingly vast expanse of 100 billion galaxies. This perspective is quite new compared to religious beliefs thousands of years old; I don't think we knew about galaxies or an expanding Universe 120 years ago. It is impossible to imagine how totally insignificant we are in this "new" Universe, but Sagan takes a stab at it.

Daughter of Cacophony · Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 8:57 am Post subject: Re: It's about perspective

ZachSylvanus said

Quote:
Regardless of what individual members (even if it's now most of them) think, the main holy books of the major religions do imply that the Earth is at the center of Creation

They do more than imply, they plainly state that the earth is the receiving end of a relationship with a creator God, that's not saying we're the center of the universe, that's not saying anything except that God picked humans and liked them a lot, the 'apple of Daddy's eye' thing- sort of being the center of God's universe, the (pathetic) way my dogs are the center of mine- the criticism seems catty, and very pointless to me, I am having a hell of a time reading this book, it literally puts me to sleep and he seems so oddly bitter- it’s like being in AvC chat, and listening to the angry people scream randomly at the people of faith, simply because they have faith- if I had known this was going to be his manifesto against organized religion, I’d not have wasted my time.

To strike preemptively at any thought or argument that I am simply being a closed minded Christian, I assure you, I can handle religious criticism very well (i'm Episcopalian LOL), even attacks on my faith are welcomed, but this seems so petty, he’s beating a dead horse with really big words- and it’s disappointing.

Lorna St. Louis

To be a witness does not consist in engaging in propaganda or even in stirring people up. It is to be a living mystery, to live one's life so that it would not make sense if God did not exist.
Cardinal Cardijn


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