You are browsing the forum as a guest. Please log in or register to access additional features.
Online reading group and book discussion forum
  HOME ABOUT BOOKS VIDEOS TRANSCRIPTS LINKS BLOGS DONATE CONTACT  

     Log in   Register 


BookTalk.org News
• If you are having trouble with logging into your account or making posts please know that we are working to resolve this issue. Please delete your temporary Internet files and cookies (at least those for our site) and stay tuned to see if that resolves the issue. If not our web designer believes he can find the code that is causing the issue.

Links & Resources

Community Rules & Tips
For Authors & Publishers
Link to our old forum
Our Amazon.com Statistics
Book Suggestions
Donations to BookTalk.org
BookTalk Forum Statistics
Games 170 FREE Games


Featured Videos

Robert Burton
"On Being Certain"


Robert Burton - On Being Certain

More Videos


Author Interviews

  

Featured Member Blogs

Ophelia's Blog
Lawrenceindestin's Blog
Penelope's Blog
Frank 013's Blog

- All Member Blogs
- Blog News


Chat Room

Enter the BookTalk.org Chat Room
Enter Chat Room

Show us where you live!
BookTalk.org Member Map

Donate & Support BookTalk.org

Please support our free community by making a credit card donation through our secure PayPal account. We appreciate and depend on the generosity of our members. Thank you!

See who supports us


Display Pagerank


Keep God out of public affairs


 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BookTalk.org Forum Index -> Archived Book Discussions 2004-2005 -> What is Good? The Search for the Best Way to Live - by A.C. Grayling
Author Message
Chris OConnor Chris OConnor has been starred
Rhodes Scholar
BookTalk.org Owner

Avatar



Joined: 20 Oct 2000

Posts: 6849
Gender: Male
Location: Florida
us.gif



PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:57 pm    Post subject: Keep God out of public affairs Reply with quote
Keep God out of public affairs by A. C. Grayling


Summary...

Religion will never provide a moral framework for technological change, argues the distinguished philosopher, A.C. Grayling, who says the state must sever all support for all faith-based groups and events in order to foster a rational, ethical basis for science.


Sunday August 12, 2001
The Observer

Religion has been given comfortable house room in liberal democracies, which protect the right of people to believe as they wish, and accept the wide variety of faiths brought into them by immigrants from all over the world. This is right and proper, for freedom of speech and belief are essential values, and the very idea of democratic society is premised on the idea of responsibly exercised liberty.
But as votaries of imported religions grow more assertive in seeking the opportunities and privileges enjoyed by religious organisations indigenous to those democracies, and as the tolerant democracies respond concessively, so the prospect of real difficulty arises. It is obvious that Tony Blair's Government does not see the difficulty, because it is encouraging the spread of faith-based schools, whether Christian, Islamic, Jewish or Sikh, and considering legislation to protect people from harassment or discrimination if suffered specifically on the grounds of their faith. Both developments seem innocuous, even (in the latter case) desirable; but in fact they dramatically increase the potential for social divisions, tension and conflict, and illustrate why the public domain needs to be secularised completely as a matter of urgency.

The world's major religions - especially Christianity, Islam, and Judaism - are not merely incompatible with one another, but mutually antithetical. All religions are such that if they are pushed to their logical conclusions, or if their founding literatures and early traditions are accepted literally, they will take the form of their respective fundamentalisms. Jehovah's Witnesses and the Taliban are not aberrations, but unadulterated and unconstrained expressions of their respective faiths, as practised by people who are not interested in refined temporisings or theological niceties, but who literally accept the world-view of the writings they regard as sacred, and insist on the morality and way of life prescribed by them.

This is where the threat of serious future difficulty lies, because all the major religions blaspheme one another, and each by its principles ought actively to oppose the others - although not, one pessimistically hopes, as they did in the past with crusades, jihads and pogroms. They blaspheme each other in numerous ways. All non-Christians blaspheme Christianity by their refusal to accept the divinity of Christ, because in so doing they reject the Holy Ghost - which is described as the most serious of all blasphemies.

The New Testament has Christ say: 'I am the way, the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father but by me.' This places members of other faiths beyond redemption if they know this claim but do not heed it. By an unlucky twist of theology, Protestants have to regard Catholics as blasphemers too, because the latter regard Mary as co-redemptorix with Christ, in violation of the utterance just quoted.

All non-Muslims blaspheme Islam because they insult Mohammed by not accepting him as the true Prophet, and by ignoring the teachings of the Koran. Jews seem the least philosophically troubled by what people of other faiths think about their own - but Orthodox Jews regard themselves as religiously superior to others because others fail in the proper observances, for example by not respecting kosher constraints. And in general all the religions blaspheme each other by regarding the others' teachings, metaphysics and much of their ethics as false and even pernicious, and their own religion as the only true one.

It is a woolly liberal hope that all religions can be viewed as worshipping the same deity, only in different ways; but this is a nonsense, as shown by the most cursory comparison of teachings, interpretations, moral requirements, creation myths and eschatologies, in all of which the major religions differ and frequently contradict each other. History shows how clearly the religions themselves grasped this; the motivation for Christianity's hundreds of years of crusades against Islam, pogroms against Jews, and inquisitions against heretics, was the desire to expunge heterodoxy and 'infidelity', or at least to effect forcible compliance with prevailing orthodoxy. Islam's various jihads and fatwahs had and have the same aim, and it spread half way around the world by conquest and the sword.

Where they can get away with it, fundamentalists continue the same practices. The religious Right in America would doubtless do so too, but has to use TV, money, advertising, and political lobbying instead to impress its version of the truth on America. It is only where religion is on the back foot, reduced to a minority practice, with an insecure tenure in society, that it presents itself as essentially peaceful and charitable.

This is the chief reason why allowing the major religions to jostle against one another in the public domain is dangerous. The solution is to make the public domain wholly secular, leaving religion as a matter of private conviction. Society should be blind to religion both in the sense that it lets people believe and behave as they wish provided they do no harm to others, and in the sense that it acts as if religions do not exist, with public affairs being secular in character. The US constitution provides this, though the religious lobby is always trying to breach it - while George W. Bush's policy of granting public funds for 'faith-based initiatives' actually does so. To secularise society in Britain would mean that government funding for church schools and 'faith-based' organisations and activities would cease, as would religious programming in public broadcasting. It would mean the disestablishment of the Church of England, and the repeal of laws relating to blasphemy and sacrilege, leaving protection of private belief and practice to the safeguards which already very adequately exist in law.

If society does not secularise fully the result will be serious trouble; for as science and technology take us even further away from the ancient superstitions on which religions are based (a separation tellingly emphasised by the current cloning controversy), and as secular values continue to increase their influence, the tensions can only become greater. The science-religion debate of the nineteenth century is a skirmish in comparison to what we are inviting by allowing not just religion but mutually competing religions so much presence in public space. Now is the time to place religion where it belongs - in the private sphere, leaving the public domain as neutral territory where all can meet, without prejudice, as humans and equals.

• A.C Grayling teaches at Birkbeck College, University of London.







"Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." - Nelson Mandella

Back to top
PeterDF PeterDF has been starred
Freshman





Joined: 07 Jul 2003

Posts: 214
Gender: Male



PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Keep God out of public affairs Reply with quote
Hear Hear :D

Back to top
PeterDF PeterDF has been starred
Freshman





Joined: 07 Jul 2003

Posts: 214
Gender: Male



PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Keep God out of public affairs Reply with quote
I've been thinking about this article further. I agree with Grayling that each religion describes a version of the truth that is incompatible with any other, as I think I've said in one of my other posts somewhere.

Most intellectuals and theologians honour the right of those, whose faith differs from their own, to hold their own religious viewpoint. Or at least they do when they are seen debating, and the cameras are on. What they say in private may, or may not, be different. But it is interesting that, even in public, they are not always so comfortable to respect someone's right to deny god altogether. (I talked about this when I was discussing BBC bias in the roundtable.)

What is dangerous is that most people don't have the camera's on them, or the intellectual training to take the wider view. Even those who happen to become the president of the US.

At the risk of repeating myself:
Hear Hear!

Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BookTalk.org Forum Index -> Archived Book Discussions 2004-2005 -> What is Good? The Search for the Best Way to Live - by A.C. Grayling  
Page 1 of 1


 
Recent Topics
» Poem of the moment
by Grim on Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:21 pm

» Ch. 1: The Feeling of Knowing
by Robert Tulip on Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:57 pm

» How do Thoreau's words affect you personally?
by Thomas Hood on Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:27 pm

» Religion and Ecological Responsibility
by Dissident Heart on Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:56 pm

» Chapter 5. Solitude
by DWill on Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:53 pm

» What is Transcendentalism?
by WildCityWoman on Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:53 pm

» Chapter 4. Sounds
by Thomas Hood on Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:31 am

» Chapter 1. Economy
by DWill on Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:47 am

» Reasons 41 - 50
by Frank 013 on Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:16 am

» Suggestions for our next official fiction discussion
by Ophelia on Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:27 am




BookTalk.org Suggests


Imagine No Superstition: The Power to Enjoy Life With No Guilt, No Shame, No Blame by Stephen Frederick

Scheisshaus Luck: Surviving the Unspeakable in Auschwitz and Dora by Pierre Berg with Brian Brock

Beyond Reasonable Doubt by Geoff J. Henley

Palace Council by Stephen L. Carter

How to Get Rich as a Televangelist or Faith Healer by Bill Wilson

Silver: My Own Tale As Written by Me with a Goodly Amount of Murder by Edward Chupack

Rising Above The Influence: A True Story about Alcohol, Drugs, and Recovery by Stephen J. Della Valle

Are You Famous? Touring America with Alaska's Fiddling Poet by Ken Waldman

Additional Book Suggestions


Poll
Have you ever parked in a handicapped spot?

Yes [4]
No [15]

You must login to vote


BookTalk.org is a book discussion group, also known as a reading group or book club. We read and talk about non-fiction books, as a group. Live author chats where book group members can interact with and interview authors are common. We often give away free books to our members in book giveaway contests. Our booktalks are open to everybody who enjoys booktalk.  Booktalk is a free online reading group that features quality book reviews, resources for readers and book lovers. Discussing books is our passion. Non-fiction chat, book forum, literature forum, or reading forum. Register a free book club account today. Suggest nonfiction books. Authors and publishers are welcome to plug their books or ask for an author chat or interview.

MAIN NAVIGATION

HOMEABOUTBOOKSTRANSCRIPTSOLD FORUMSLINKSBLOGSFAQDONATECONTACT

BOOKS WE HAVE DISCUSSED
• On Being Certain by Robert A. Burton • 50 reasons people give for believing in a god by Guy P. Harrison • Walden: Or, Life in the Woods by Henry David Thoreau • Exile and the Kingdom by Albert Camus • Our Inner Ape: A Leading Primatologist Explains Why We Are Who We Are by Frans de Waal • Your Inner Fish: A Journey into the 3.5-Billion-Year-History of the Human Body by Neil Shubin • No Country for Old Men by Cormac McCarthy • The Age of American Unreason by Susan Jacoby • Ten Theories of Human Nature by Leslie Stevenson & David Haberman • Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad • The Stuff of Thought: Language as a Window Into Human Nature by Stephen Pinker • A Thousand Splendid Suns by Khaled Hosseini • The Lucifer Effect: Understanding How Good People Turn Evil by Philip Zimbardo • Responsibility and Judgment by Hannah Arendt • Interventions by Noam Chomsky • Godless in America by George A. Ricker • Religious Expression and the American Constitution by Franklyn S. Haiman • Deep Economy: The Wealth of Communities and the Durable Future by Phil McKibben • The God Delusion by Richard DawkinsThe Third Chimpanzee: The Evolution and Future of the Human Animal by Jared DiamondThe Woman in the Dunes by Abe KoboEvolution vs. Creationism: An Introduction by Eugenie C. ScottThe Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals by Michael PollanI, Claudius : From the Autobiography of Tiberius Claudius, Born 10 B.C., Murdered and Deified A.D. 54 by Robert GravesBreaking The Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon by Daniel C. DennettA Peace to End All Peace: The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East Peace by David FromkinThe Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey NiffeneggerThe End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason by Sam HarrisEnder's Game by Orson Scott CardThe Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark HaddonValue and Virtue in a Godless Universe by Erik J. WielenbergThe March by E. L DoctorowThe Ethical Brain by Michael GazzanigaFreethinkers: A History of American Secularism by Susan JacobyCollapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared DiamondThe Battle for God by Karen ArmstrongThe Future of Life by Edward O. WilsonWhat is Good? The Search for the Best Way to Live by A. C. GraylingCivilization and Its Enemies: The Next Stage of History by Lee HarrisPale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space by Carl SaganHow We Believe: Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God by Michael ShermerLooking for Spinoza: Joy, Sorrow, and the Feeling Brain by Antonio DamasioLies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right by Al FrankenThe Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature by Matt RidleyThe Blank Slate: The Modern Denial of Human Nature by Stephen PinkerUnweaving the Rainbow: Science, Delusion and the Appetite for Wonder by Richard DawkinsAtheism: A Reader edited by S.T. JoshiGlobal Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From the Big Bang To the 21st Century by Howard BloomThe Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition into the Forces of Nature by Howard BloomGuns, Germs and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies by Jared DiamondThe Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl SaganBury My Heart at Wounded Knee: An Indian History of the American West by Dee BrownFuture Shock by Alvin Toffler

OTHER PAGES
Baloney Detection KitBanned Book ListBook OrdersMassimo Pigliucci Rationally SpeakingOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism Books

Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2008. All rights reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group