This thread is for discussing Ch. 9 - Onward, Christian Soldiers. You can post within this framework or create your own threads.

---

so sad that I am 'leading the charge' into these later chapters. I really would like to read what others are thinking!

By way of disclosure, I went to Catholic grade school and High School just outside of Philadelphia....

so I was pretty surprised that I had never heard of the boycott organized by Catholics in 1934 in Philadelphia (p270). I do know that Philly is, still, kind of a conservative city, but I didn't think it was this far right. Guess I was wrong. I do know a number of very devote Catholics from the area, and remember getting into a heated discussion about the difference between faith and truth with one of my Catholic school mates.

Edited by: ginof at: 9/15/05 12:37 am

Quote:

---

The church's labeling of birth control as a communist conspiracy (p275)

---

Wow, that's rich. Those damn communists. The apparently don't want us to procreate, just have sex for pleasure. Next, they'll want the government to spy on us or something crazy like that.

One thing educational to me is this chapter is the hostility of the Church to public education. I actually started off in the public system and switched in 3rd grade because it was a better school. And it was, too. But I never thought less of the public school, and was never taught that public school was 'bad'. Perhaps the hostility had cooled by the late 60's and 70's.

the discussion of Irish vs. Italian is particularly interesting to me (p284) personally because I am Italian and went to a school that was probably 75% Irish. And got beat up a lot for it, too. In our pure, whitebread suburb, we created our own discrimination zone, Irish vs. Italian. Kind of amazing to me that we created our own prejudice (perhaps we got it from our parents) when there were no issues of color, religion, sex (I'm talking 4th grade!) or any of the usual bias culprits. I often wonder why that was, and haven't come up with a satisfactory answer.

PURE COMEDY: Does W know that the guy who wrote the pledge of alegence preached against the evils of capitalism?

the case West Virginia Board of Education vs. Barnette is very interesting. I really liked the quote (p 28 from Justice Jackson:

Quote:

---

if there is any fixed star on our constellation, it is that no offical, high or petty, can prescribe what shall by orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein

---

Unfortunately, it appears that this quote has been completely wiped from the face of the planet. Scalia certainly doesn't know it. Bush does not either. Does Roberts? Who knows, but it doesn't look good.

Amusingly, on the same day that "under God" in the Pledge was ruled unconstitutional, I read the chapter discussing the history of the Pledge.

Edited by: JulianTheApostate at: 9/15/05 1:04 am

Quote:

---

Those damn communists. The apparently don't want us to procreate, just have sex for pleasure.

---

Uh...WHY did we hate the Commies then?

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

Quote:

---

One thing educational to me is this chapter is the hostility of the Church to public education.

---

Well...the public schools in my area were put down because of educational qulaity, having unsavory (not white) kids and all that. So the aggression was there...just not overt. Passive aggressive tactics is still aggression.

The church and the schools attached to them want the tuition as well as the ability to proselytize, so naturally there would be a palpable derision toward the public schools.

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

I found it interesting that the author of the pledge was a Baptist socialist for separation of church and state. Jacoby is right when she says that, "...he would surely have been horrified by the addition of "under God"...". For those of you, like me, who like to have facts at your fingertips, here are a few about the pledge that I learned from this chapter:
1. It was written by Francis Bellamy, a man for separation of church and state.
2. It was written in 1892.
3. The words, "under God" were added in 1954.
4. The NEA supported the idea of a pledge recited in schools as a way to highlight unity.

BTW- Schools down here are still reciting the pledge with the words, "under God".