Once again, Dissident Heart, let me thank you for the fascinating references. I've been proofreading (mostly fiction) for years and years, and my eyes had little energy left over for good reading. I think Esack chose to say with humor what Cox and Loy state more seriously, but my impression of him was that he is a human being who takes what should be taken seriously with seriousness but without grimness. I want to read the things you mention when I'm done slogging through The Origins of Totalitarianism and Eichmann in Jerusalem.

The Islamic world supports and condones those suicide bombings. I just watched another show about this subject today. Throughout the Palestinian territory there are hundreds of government funded posters and billboards encouraging and praising martyrdom behavior. Most Palestinians celebrate and praise the killing of innocent Israelis.

nickelplate416 : "It wasn't my intention to start a debate on the Israel/Palestine conflict,"I can see that." and I will not take sides here "Clearly."Yet they didn't respond by randomly blowing up schools, buses, buildings or planes, killing dozens or hundreds of civilians in the process." You didn't see what Israel "supposedly" just did to Lebanon a couple of months ago?Quote:Might *reality* also be part of the problem? What is the "reality" of the number of civilians killed by Israel, compared to the number of civilians killed by it's neighbors?What is the "reality" of Israel's existence? Is it a Jewish homeland? Or is it Arab/Muslim land?I think my questions were pretty neutral. It shouldn't matter what bias one may have, (whether it's state induced or home grown) anyone should able, and any freethinker should be willing, to compare what flash cards are being shown by the corporate owned liberal media, to what's actually been happening on the ground -- in "*reality*". And see how it statistically looks on the scales -- without "choosing sides."Chris: "there are hundreds of government funded posters and billboards encouraging and praising martyrdom behavior. Most Palestinians celebrate and praise the killing of innocent Israelis"They were like parades, I tell ya!! Edited by: GOD defiles Reason at: 9/4/06 4:22 am

I'm sure there is a powerful message behind that post, God defiles Reason, but I'm missing it. Care to explain?My point is that the Muslim world supports and encourages their people strapping bombs on their bodies and detonating them in public places killing innocent men, women and children. Do you also support suicide bombings?

Chris: "I'm sure there is a powerful message behind that post, God defiles Reason, but I'm missing it. Care to explain?"Check into those questions yet? Chris: "Do you also support suicide bombings? "Do you also support Nazi style reprisals?

"You didn't see what Israel "supposedly" just did to Lebanon a couple of months ago?"Israel does not sponsor or encourage terrorist attacks against any entity, civilian or not, Muslim or not. If an Israeli was caught blowing up a Muslim school or a Palestinian community in Israel, I guarantee you that he would be trialed and put to jail. And if he was caught doing this in another country, Israel would not come to his defense. In any case, here is a very well written counterpoint on the current Israel/Lebanon tragedy: www.uwire.com/content//to...06002.htmlAnd Nasrallah (head of Hezbollah) also said this about Jews: "If we searched the entire world for a person more cowardly, despicable, weak and feeble in psyche, mind, ideology and religion, we would not find anyone like the Jew. Notice, I do not say the Israeli." (in the New Yorker, 14/10/02)This is antisemitism, plain and simple. Edited by: nickelplate416 at: 9/4/06 9:54 pm

nickelplate416 :"And Nasrallah (head of Hezbollah) also said this about Jews:"I ask you about recent actions, and you respond with what somebody said? How do words compare to actions?Did that quote come from your own personal stash of bias? or was that the best you could find in a search?"This is anti-Semitism, plain and simple."Anti-Semite. Now there's a creation that probably deserves a whole thread of discussion.Thank the good lord for the mad max meme just when our friends are committing atrocities.What is your opinion of taking a neutral stance while examining Israel's actions?

Nickelplate416Quote:Israel does not sponsor or encourage terrorist attacks against any entity, civilian or not, Muslim or not.A point that a significant number of people refuse to consider, but one that I think matters greatly.Quote:If an Israeli was caught blowing up a Muslim school or a Palestinian community in Israel, I guarantee you that he would be trialed and put to jail.And if a Palestinian were caught doing likewise he would be praised as a hero and rewarded financially by the governing terrorist organization.Quote:And Nasrallah (head of Hezbollah) also said this about Jews: "If we searched the entire world for a person more cowardly, despicable, weak and feeble in psyche, mind, ideology and religion, we would not find anyone like the Jew. Notice, I do not say the Israeli." (in the New Yorker, 14/10/02)This is antisemitism, plain and simple.This seems crytsal clear to anyone with their eyes open.Oh, and welcome to BookTalk Nickelplate416. I'm enjoying your posts. Edited by: Chris OConnor  at: 9/5/06 1:03 am

Nickelplate416You made a comment earlier that stuck in my head.Quote:Islam - and Christianity, etc. - *is* the problem. If the most likely interpretation of an excerpt from a holy book is one of martyrdom, then the problem is not with the reader, but with the message itself.For a message supposedly coming from a all-knowing and all-powerful superhero there sure is some confusion. Couldn't this deity have delivered are more precise and clear message so that billions of his children wouldn't slaughter each other due to translation errors?

We liike d' way u talk mmmm hmm.