DB Roy wrote: Nothing to do with left and right
I am lately noticing that some arguments from the progressive side of politics seem to exhibit an increasingly surreal detachment from reality. I don’t mean to be rude, but I think this detachment in the annals of political correctness is perceived by many Trump voters, and is why many were so pleased to see the back of Hillary Clinton. It seems obvious to me, to explore the latest foreign foray, that attitudes towards Taiwan are linked to people’s position on the political spectrum. Sympathy for Taiwan correlates with political conservatism. The fact that Taiwan is Trump’s first international dustup since the election, due to him adopting a position urged on him by conservatives, shows that political contact with Taiwan has something to do with left and right.
DB Roy wrote: He also railed against the new Air Force One planes saying they are too expensive and just one costs $4 billion when, in fact, the funding under the current contract in limited to $170 million.
Sorry DB, your comment here is rather distorted. Trump did not make any factual error as far as I could tell from
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-t ... SKBN13V1S5 DB Roy wrote:
You sit here badmouthing anything you perceive as coming from the left
No I do not. Your comment is an unfair generalisation, and even looks a bit like projection, given your general views about right wing opinions. I respect factual analysis that comes from all sources, and disrespect ideological opinions that lack coherent links to evidence.
DB Roy wrote: you think Trump is going to unite China and Taiwan
No, I did not say that, I just said that the USA should encourage China to shift its capital city to Taiwan. Any decision on China politics will be made by China, and not by anyone else, let alone Donald Trump.
DB Roy wrote: I currently see no hope of either side could ever be united about anything
That sort of dismal prognosis is a recipe for increased separation. Far better to imagine a future that better meets everyone’s needs, in a One China that respects modern values of democracy and liberty.
DB Roy wrote: Orientals across the ocean who can be so easily manipulated
Again, that is nothing but a distorted caricature. China’s politics has not advanced in line with its economy, and the USA can help China out by encouraging reform towards the values and principles that made America great. That is a win-win in the interests of both the US and China.
DB Roy wrote: The best you can do is not to upset the apple cart
like by kowtowing to the glorious Emperor of the Middle Kingdom?
DB Roy wrote: that is exactly what Trump is doing and he seems to be doing so very deliberately
’Upsetting the apple cart’ means restoring principles to politics after the Obama weak years.
DB Roy wrote: We recognize China for a very good reason: if we went to war with them, we could not possibly win.
That is a false dichotomy between recognition and war. It is Nervous Nellie language to say that we have to give in to a bully. It is better to stand up to a bully by asserting principles such as the right to state your opinions publicly to your friends. US friendship with Taiwan is not going to cause a war with China.
DB Roy wrote: There is not a single scenario where we go to war and come out the victors.
You might be forgetting the Second World War and the Korean War here.
DB Roy wrote: We cannot afford to get on China's bad side. They can out-produce us and they will outlast us.
Now you are really warming up. China’s GDP will not reach the level of the USA for a long time
Economic growth is best served by leaders who take a stand on principles, and that is what underpins Trump’s sympathy for Taiwan.
DB Roy wrote:Taiwan can't do shit
Check out
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Miracle for a fact check on that one.
DB Roy wrote:
The Chinese are not hegemonous. If they were, they'd have long ago taken over all of Asia--the world, really.
The nature of politics is that nations test their limits and avoid risks. The USA gave China’s expansionist tendencies a bloody nose in the wars of communist expansion in
Korea and
Vietnam. The US Navy continues to safeguard the stability of Asia’s trade routes.
DB Roy wrote: They not going to leave Beijing for some foreign island of exile. Not going to happen. That's like asking the American govt to move from Washington DC to Havana. In fact, you'd have better luck with that than getting the Chinese govt to move to Taipei.
One difference is that Cuba is an abusive basket case while Taiwan is a thriving member of the OECD.
DB Roy wrote:
after this debacle with China, you can believe that is exactly what they are discussing--"Trump wants war, we must prepare."
That is rank alarmism serving only to whip up ideological fervor. Trump does not want war. But nor does he want to be pushed around to the detriment of America’s interests. Peace is best protected when strong nations lead by example and encourage weaker and more backward nations to improve their performance, rather than pretending that corrupt and abusive actions are acceptable. Trump is no saint, but he is far more likely to be on the right side of the big questions than Clinton would have been.
The past policy of failure to stand up for Taiwan, and all the kowtow worrywart carryon, sends all the wrong signals about American values.
DB Roy wrote:
It's very arrogant to think China will naturally evolve towards democracy and liberty when we are not a democracy and have elected a man who openly wants to curtail our liberties.
The USA has a long and proud record of peaceful democratic transition of government, despite abuses at the margin such as preventing blacks from voting and the Bush/Gore Florida episode. I had a look for analysis of this plan to curtail liberties, and
https://www.aclu.org/feature/donald-tru ... nal-crisis shows it is mostly about restricting the opportunities for foreigners to take advantage of America’s generosity. For example, Trump wants to make American residency based on rule of law.
DB Roy wrote:
Any cooperation we were getting from China came from our stated recognition of only one China. Expect no further cooperation.
Nations have no permanent friends or allies, they only have permanent interests. Cooperation with China is based on interests, primarily in trade. China will only bluster in response to the USA ending its hypocrisy on Taiwan.