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Is Bill Nye really a "science guy" ?

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LynLlew
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Re: Is Bill Nye really a "science guy" ?

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I realize this is an old thread, but it caught my eye.

I read the earlier responses...and could see pretty quickly that the discussion was more of a political one, meant to debunk someone who has an enthusiasm and a great deal of knowledge about the scientific world and the natural world in particular--whether or not a university has granted him the permission to learn such things. In fact, several universities have, but since they are honorary degrees given as a result of his real-world work, they seem not to matter as much to certain people. This seems a little backward to me, as I have learned so much more about everything I know in the years following my institutional education...as has everyone (hopefully. Isn't that sort of the point?)

I'm not sure who has the authority to determine whether a person is technically a "scientist". I do know that many dictionaries seem to agree that a scientist is an individual that possesses knowledge or is an expert in a particular field of science....or who has contributed to any of the many scientific fields. I also know that someone who honors the scientific method and researches scientific subjects can also be known as a scientist. This is sort of the point, too. If the only people who could contribute to the world's knowledge were limited to those who have been granted a doctorate and accepted into laboratories for employment....we would all sort of be serfs digging up potatoes for our king and not really have much time for arguing on the internet, while the elite few up in the castles were the only ones allowed to learn.

Bill Nye has contributed immensely to the scientific community over the years, even though he was once part of the cast of a very funny (and seriously underrated) Canadian sketch comedy show....which I watched. I also grew up watching his science show...which was aimed at kids and the content of which can't really be used to demonstrate the man's only scientific knowledge. I would posit that educating children and engaging their imaginations while introducing them to the many ways that science can be fun and fascinating is a huge contribution. His connection to the entertainment industry should not negate his intelligence. That's sort of an absurd and childish way of looking at a person.

If his education is in question, and a scientist can only be taken seriously for his schooling...shouldn't it matter that he was a mechanical engineer by degree?? Or even that he took a class given by one of the Mega-Gods of science geeks everywhere--Carl Sagan??

And to question his inventions and patents because they seem....silly to you? Have you thought about the engineering that creating a ballet slipper might involve? Not being a ballerina, you might not fully appreciate the importance of the structure that keeps a 100 pound woman from breaking her toes when all 100 pounds is concentrated on a 3 centimeter surface area.

Or maybe you aren't really aware of the complicated nature of optics, and how harnessing the properties of water as a magnifier might actually be an inventive way of solving a problem. Add to that the challenge of solving that problem in a way that is educational...like creating an educational tool using water as a magnifier.

Or maybe it escapes you how complicated and involved it is to execute a Mars Rover mission...and that hundreds of brilliant minds all converging together in small ways, by creating individual instrumentation (like a sundial that can help the mission manage time..kind of important when considering your resources on a planet that isn't our own might be limited and you don't want to screw the whole thing up because of a timing issue...like we almost did on the first moon mission) might just be the most important part of science at all...the greatest thing about the human being: our ability to collaborate.

And let's talk briefly about scientific thought....you know...because it's kind of the basis of science. Scientific thought demands objective viewpoints...and skepticism. Questioning established theories--testing and retesting--is one of the most important elements of science there is! Not the measurements....not the degree. Not the snazzy pantsuit.
The whole basis of the scientific method is dependent upon questioning..and reasoning..and rational thought...and skepticism for established notions. Nye is a respected member of the scientific community....and he is especially respected for being so public and vocal about the real concerns that the scientific community has and for his commitment to education, both of children and adults.

And while we're on the subject of pantsuits, it should be noted that many of the arguments against taking a man like Bill Nye seriously have been pretty publicly made by other entertainment figures (sorry...I mean professional campaigners), who are really just afraid of looking just a little more ridiculous than they already look. And since they can't "debunk" the cast of Saturday Night Live they turn to someone who has something more to lose. I would also posit that questioning a scientific claim by attempting to make an intelligent and enthusiastic scientific thinker---who also happens to be a bit nerdy and goofy (a highly offensive thing to certain people)--look stupid.....

Is the easiest way to make yourself look even more stupid.

Thank you for your time....and DFTBA.
“I believe the universe wants to be noticed. I think the universe is improbably biased toward consciousness, that it rewards intelligence in part because the universe enjoys its elegance being observed. And who am I, living in the middle of history, to tell the universe that it--or my observation of it--is temporary?” ~John Green
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Re: Is Bill Nye really a "science guy" ?

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Wow LynLlew!

That was a brilliant defense of a man that shouldn't need to be defended. It was so well-written it caused me to Google a few sentences to see if it was published elsewhere.

I sure hope you stick around. Great thinkers and writers are very much appreciated around here.

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LynLlew
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Re: Is Bill Nye really a "science guy" ?

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Thank you. I admit I laughed a little when you said you googled my writing. Yes, it's all me, rambling and excessive use of ellipses included. Lol.

I agree that Nye is a man who shouldn't need defending....but I am always happy to defend someone I agree strongly with and admire. More than the man himself, though, I often feel a strong pull towards defending an open way of thought and an enthusiasm for learning. It is the hunger for knowledge and understanding that drives my love of reading...and just like the human body reinventing itself as old cells die and new cells are born--with every new gem of information I grow and evolve and become a completely different being. It really is sort of beautiful.

Being more of a literary geek growing up, I never excelled in the sciences. I struggled through math and biology and physics...but the amazing thing about science is that no matter how lacking I ended up being in the disciplinary ways of the scientific method, I loved every minute of those classes. I could never be a scientist, but there is something about science that leaves me awestruck and breathless every time. There is just so much out there...and so many intriguing and fascinating things to discover and learn and improve upon....So much beauty and art and order and chaos...

And so many incredible people. People who live their entire lives fighting for the truth....even if it means ridicule and misunderstandings and disbelief and even shunning from society.....or sacrificing their lives. People who strive every day to find meaning in the meaningless. People who may seem to others as rigid and emotionless and strange...but who are actually vibrant and alive and full of happiness, enthusiasm and hope.

I am a hopeless romantic. Always have been. But scientists are hopeful romantics. They revel in the discovery of answers to life...and give meaning to everything. Their gift to the rest of us is the product of undying love..and the truest love there is. Exploring what it means to be who and what we are...learning everything there is to learn about the universe around us...and always striving to share what they have learned so that everyone can know the joy of understanding what we are and what an amazing and incredible thing we are all part of.

I would even argue that the scientists--and those who love science--are living life more than any other of the droning masses on this tumbling little blue marble of ours. And for that reason, they will always be among my favorite heroes.

Thanks again...and DFTBA :)
“I believe the universe wants to be noticed. I think the universe is improbably biased toward consciousness, that it rewards intelligence in part because the universe enjoys its elegance being observed. And who am I, living in the middle of history, to tell the universe that it--or my observation of it--is temporary?” ~John Green
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Re: Is Bill Nye really a "science guy" ?

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Excellent post, LynLlew.

I agree that Bill Nye doesn't need defending. And I also agree with your points that a person's education background does not alone determine his/her credibility for science reporting. But I think it’s important to know that Nye is a science communicator—or “edutainer”—and not really an authority figure. It’s when people elevate him to a figure of authority that we run into problems. Science does not need authority figures. And the real world often cannot be reduced to mere facts. Such is the case, for example, with the televised debate between Nye and Creationist Ken Hamm. This debate inevitably pitted science versus religion, and Nye became the defacto representative of science versus Hamm’s religion. This over simplistic rendition makes for good television, but perhaps does science (and religion) a disservice.

There also comes a point when a person's fame oversteps his actual experience and knowledge. I think of Oprah Winfrey, whose celebrity status is often mistaken for knowledge. She’s rich and famous and has her own TV show. Therefore, she must know a lot. But this is fallacious kind of thinking. In reality Oprah has peddled a lot of nonsense on her show and unfortunately her followers eat it up.

Being an expert in one area does not make you an expert in another area. Einstein, for example, would be a credible authority on particle physics, but his political opinions were as worthless as the next guy’s.

Nye at least is grounded in science, but he’s still just a science communicator/TV personality. I think it’s important to remember that.
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LynLlew
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Re: Is Bill Nye really a "science guy" ?

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I'm interested to know what you feel constitutes authority, especially in the context of a debate. Does the person on the other side of the debate have authority for any particular reason? If so...is it more important that the concept of authority center on that which some collective has agreed upon as legitimate..or is it simply a matter of line items on a resume?

I agree with you that Oprah Winfrey's fame doesn't automatically grant her knowledge. And I'm not particularly interested in defending Oprah....But those who would consider Oprah as the bearer of all knowledge probably don't really know anything about what she does. She's a host and a curator. She isn't an all-knowing expert on all things, much in the same way Jimmy Fallon isn't a Hollywood director. She is also a businesswoman and an entrepreneur....which arguably deserves credit in that field.

However, let's go ahead and look at Oprah. If Oprah spent several years working within a certain field and gained knowledge and experience in that field....and then in the process became a part of the community of that field and gained credentials in the form of respect from the peers of that field..and then she subsequently became known for discussing her knowledge and her ideas and her peers' ideas in a public forum....and over time became a fixture and a known spokesperson for those ideas....would people then not begin to respect her as an authority? And is that sufficient cred for someone who is in denial of that authority? Should she fill out a resume.....or prove her worthiness in some test? What's the criteria?
“I believe the universe wants to be noticed. I think the universe is improbably biased toward consciousness, that it rewards intelligence in part because the universe enjoys its elegance being observed. And who am I, living in the middle of history, to tell the universe that it--or my observation of it--is temporary?” ~John Green
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Re: Is Bill Nye really a "science guy" ?

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Chris OConnor wrote:Do you guys think it is merely coincidence that almost all of the people denying man-made climate change are Christians? Would you at least admit that maybe, just possibly, we're seeing the confirmation bias in action here?

Hmm, I'm a Christian. I think it's hilarious that uber-environmentalists are more nervous about cow farts than ISIS. lol What about when a volcano farts more CO2 into the atmosphere than man ever will? lol Man will not destroy this earth because, he CANNOT. Oh, he may have the capability to wipe himself off the planet but the planet will burp and shake and keep on going. And, since I am a Christian I must inform you that God said this earth will continue.

Genesis 8:22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

So, you folks who say that climate change is man-made are really not stupid as you call Christians, but you ARE ignorant.
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Re: Is Bill Nye really a "science guy" ?

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ant wrote:Here's what I can't understand:

Despite my personal acknowledgement of a warming planet
Despite my acknowledgement and support of the need to take action
Despite my complete and utter disdain for pollution and raping of our natural landscape (what's left of it)...,

I am still referred to as a "bigot" and "denier" because I will not point the finger at human beings as being strictly and completely responsible for climate change.


It's like a weird cult for people like Robert. It's so Orwellian.
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Re: Is Bill Nye really a "science guy" ?

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Before you launch a holy hand grenade at me, may I just interject that environmental concerns and ISIS are not mutually exclusive, nor connected? That's a little like saying someone can't be happy about their team winning the world series while also being thrilled to welcome their newborn baby into the world.
“I believe the universe wants to be noticed. I think the universe is improbably biased toward consciousness, that it rewards intelligence in part because the universe enjoys its elegance being observed. And who am I, living in the middle of history, to tell the universe that it--or my observation of it--is temporary?” ~John Green
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Re: Is Bill Nye really a "science guy" ?

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Barry wrote:And, since I am a Christian I must inform you that God said this earth will continue.
That's one of the most dangerous beliefs a person can have. Willful ignorance over the damage we're doing because of blind faith in a book written by ancient Romans. This is the sort of belief that allows societies to collapse, that undoes kingdoms, and which might have an impact on the survival of our species.

Who produces more co2:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... or-humans/

A cartoon for perspective: https://xkcd.com/1732/
So, you folks who say that climate change is man-made are really not stupid as you call Christians, but you ARE ignorant.
I'm not ignorant of what the ancient Romans wrote in their book. The difference is that I dismiss what's written when it contradicts what we know to be true.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
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LynLlew
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Re: Is Bill Nye really a "science guy" ?

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There's a lot to be said about desperately wanting the events of a book to be true....

I'm still looking forward to running into the family from Tuck Everlasting.
“I believe the universe wants to be noticed. I think the universe is improbably biased toward consciousness, that it rewards intelligence in part because the universe enjoys its elegance being observed. And who am I, living in the middle of history, to tell the universe that it--or my observation of it--is temporary?” ~John Green
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